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Les Podcast Officiels de Civilization V
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10 Juil 2010 à 23:49 »
Fil de discussions sur les Podcasts officiels de Firaxis - Civilization 5.
Les Podcasts sont écoutable (en anglais) sur le site officiel de Civilization V :
Civilization5.com
Liste des Podcasts :
Bienvenue à Civilization V
Le graphisme de Civilization V
Les personnages de Civilization V
Une immersion sonore plus réaliste
Un nouveau moteur pour le jeu, mais pourquoi ?
L'interface utilisateur.
Batailles et Combats.
L'I.A. de Civilization V.
Les cités-États.
Les doctrines sociales.
La Civilopédia et l'arbre technologique.
Les personnages qui nous aiderons...
Les Merveilles
Les Victoires
Le SDK pour modifier le jeu
Les transcriptions (en anglais) sont mises en Spoiler pour pouvoir être traduites facilement via des outils de traductions comme ceux de google. (ce qui n'est pas possible sur leur site)
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Podcast 1 : Welcome to Civilization V
«
Réponse #1 le:
11 Juil 2010 à 00:04 »
Episode 1 :
Bienvenue à Civilization V
L’équipe de développement Firaxis nous présente le dernier né de la célèbre franchise et nous en dit un peu plus sur l’histoire du jeu et les éléments clés de la conception de Civilization V.
ET:
Welcome to the Civilization V Podcast Series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and over the next few months, I’ll be taking you inside the Firaxis studio, introducing you to the Civilization V development team, and weaving my way through the latest iteration of this addictive series.
Before we begin wading in to the actual game, however, there is a team that needs introducing.
JS:
My name is Jon Shafer. I was originally part of the mod community and the Civilization forum community way back when for Civ II and Civ III and from there I made the jump to developer and have been working on Civ IV and then the expansions and then Civ V.
DS:
Well being that this is Firaxis, we've obviously got a tremendous amount of Civilization veterans on the team that have been here since many versions past. One of the new additions we have to this team for instance, Brian Wade, lead engineer, sitting at the table here with us – he actually has been a long time Civilization fan and long time employee of other game studios making strategy games and we've got quite a few members on the team that are doing stuff like that.
BW:
Yeah jumped ship a few years back to come here to work on Civ V and brought some people with me.
DS:
Well that's what's great about the team. The team is made up of not just, you know, employees but there's a tremendous amount of fans in play here too that actually came to work here at the company just because they were a fan or they came from the fan community and they finally get to work on the game, and that's what makes Firaxis games particularly special. And I don't mean for this to sound like marketing jargon but this is true because if you're working on the game and you love the game and you believe in the franchise as a whole you're just gonna have a better game than somebody who's just here to do the work.
BW:
Yeah passion makes a huge difference and anyone who's passionate about the job they're doing is going to do a better job at it.
DS:
Yeah. We've got some other interesting characters on the team as well I mean we've got some like Brian Busotti, our lead modeler who's been working on Civilization games for a long long time. Chris Hickman, our lead animator, he had to have some adjustment because he came from the film and television industry. And he had to learn an entire new way to do things because now we're like, “no you can't do anything you want – you have to actually make it fit on the computer and have the computer run the animations.” So he had a period of adjustment where you had to adjust to the whole gaming philosophy. I'll let Dorian talk about that some more.
DN:
Yeah I'll definitely talk – before we start talking about the specifics on the staff it was fun. As a group we decided to get – I share an office with Brian and Jon and it hasn't always been super easy, but it's been super efficient to solve problems. Because if people have a question about what we're doing in the game, if the designer, the engineer and the artist aren't aware of it we know it's probably not an important part of the game. And if it's an item that we need to solve we can problem solve almost instantaneously. So I think that was a really fun way to start off and we've been able to keep it like that for a while. And then in the art team we have a wide range of guys that are gonna see the first game that they've worked on hit the shelves, and we've had guys that have seen, you know, 5-10 titles come out in the past 10 years or so. And I've been really thrilled to see that wide range of people get along and be excited about working together because a lot of times there's generation gaps on projects and it seems like the older guys have gotten the young guys excited about the scope of what they're working on and the young guys have brought that nice energy level to it. For example our terrain artist, Steve Eggry, has done a fantastic job and he comes from a painting background and this is his first sort of industry gig and he's been doing a great job. And we have Greg Cunningham who's been working a lot on implementing the units and he's worked on a lot of Civ titles in the past and he's still learning new things and getting animations (inaudible) better so seeing that spectrum has been really exciting.
ET:
As a hardcore Civ fan since a young age (I remember playing the original Civ long past my bedtime many nights in a row) the journey to Civilization V has been a long and winding road for me, as undoubtedly it has been for many dedicated fans listening to this recording. But Civ V is so much more than merely “the game that comes after Civ IV” and its dev team has a distinct and unique background, making them perfect for breathing new life and taking Civilization to new, unexplored places. Jon Shafer, Lead Designer for Civilization V, starts from the beginning – when designing the title began.
JS:
The very beginning would probably be considered the summer of 2007. That was right after Beyond the Sword was finished and some of us had peeled off from that and started on early prototype work for Civ V. The first two people in the project were myself and Dorian and from that point we were starting to prototype some game concepts. The first thing we tackled was combat and Dorian was exploring the visuals as well.
DN:
I spent a lot of time gathering research as to what would make a history game cool, looking a lot at film and classical paintings and we wanted to sort of re-imagine the scale that people were playing Civilization at, so we wanted to look at much larger battles and we did a lot of that by modifying the existing Civ IV game which was really fun.
ET:
That’s Dorian Newcomb, the game’s Lead Artist, who also has quite the storied history with the franchise and has come from a background of many past Civilization games. But Civ V isn’t just for the hardcore addicts such as myself, or the modders-turned-lead-designers like Jon – Civ is the strategy game for PC, and is something everyone with a working computer should experience. But how to describe such an expansive experience that is Civ? I asked for an elevator pitch – perhaps ten or twelve floors, give or take a few.
JS:
I think the main thing with any Civilization game really is the opportunity to live through history and guide it as you would - however you would like. So, you know, one example I've used in the past is people really like historical books or movies or maybe even other games. Civilization allows you to cover the entire gamut of human history and the ability to shape it and do whatever you want with that. You can be a warmonger, you can build great wonders of the world, you can be a diplomat, you can, you know, do whatever you want. And it's an opportunity to, you know, be the guy or the girl in charge and, you know, live history.
DS:
That's what the best part of this game is, because often times you have games that really want you to play a certain way. You know how you're gonna start and they know how they want you to finish, but Civilization as a series in general, you get to start somewhere and you really have no idea where you're gonna end up by the time it comes around. We have no idea where players are gonna end up and I think that's what makes it so amazing.
BW:
It very much depends on choices they make and there's so many they can make throughout one game of Civ.
ET:
Brian Wade, Lead Programmer on Civilization V, brings up an excellent point: Choice guides Civilization V in a way that few games can rival. This makes for a never-ending experience, and for game play that varies drastically depending on the player (or even the player’s mood.) Choice, however, is an established tenant of the Civ franchise, and the design principles for Civilization V both play off the importance of choice and go far beyond to focus on important aspects of the game that haven’t been brought to the front in the past.
JS:
The main design principles that we had going forward, there were a few big, big things. One that will stand out to anybody who knows anything about Civ V already is the fact that we wanted to enhance and improve combat – add more depth there. We wanted to mesh the idea of tactical combat with the whole grand strategic play of the game. So you build the armies, you decide where they go, and then you actually have them fight. So it covers the entire sequence of that part of history. For me, one big things was also to give players a lot of flexibility in terms of how they develop their empires. So happiness is a good example of that. Happiness is now empire-based instead of city-based and what that lets players do is expand a lot and have a lot of small cities or a few really big cities. Another example of that is gold. We tried to make gold more important in the game, you can do a lot more things with it. So that gives players the opportunity to do things that they haven't been able to do in previous games. It gives them freedom.
ET:
Civilization V’s Producer, Dennis Shirk, helps give me insight into what the team wanted to accomplish in this new game. Design principles aside, there were some big ideas they needed to master.
DS:
I think one of the things that I think Jon accomplished pretty well was to not make Civilization 4.5 or 4.7, but to do something completely new with the series – take it down a slightly different road without losing touch of the whole Civ series feel while still delivering something new to the player.
DN:
One goal that I wanted to have is we have a world that's very dynamic and every time you play the game it can be a very different experience. I wanted to take an approach with the visuals for the terrain that made the landscape be very open, have a very epic feel, and have you have a sense of excitement about discovering new things. That was hard to feel in the older square-based Civ IV title and the play was scaled a bit more so mountain ranges felt enormous and instead of a small bit of trees you felt like you're traveling through forested hills. It was just the excitement of discovery that I wanted to push early on.
BW:
As far as I'm concerned a lot of it was technically pulling off the stuff that Jon and Dorian had wanted. They had pretty good ideas of what they wanted before the programmers were brought onto the project. So a lot of what I had was, “well let's figure out how in fact we can do this.” And I won't say all of it was easy, some of it was actually kinda hard.
DS:
And they really pull it off too. I mean the first time that you run into Elizabeth and she fills the screen and you're approaching her in the throne room, you just know that it's something different and new because it's not any longer somebody just kind of floating in a window. You're like there and you're talking to the person and they're angry and they're squinting at you – it's really really cool.
ET:
Firaxis likes to do things themselves – and when they are reinventing a game, like they are doing with Civilization V, they need specific tools to accomplish the task. Civ V has been built, literally, from the ground up – engine and all.
BW:
Well yeah there was a lot that we had to start from scratch on. We had realized the limitations of the previous code that we had and the previous tools and decided that if we wanted to pull this off we'd have to build new tools and a new engine. And we, especially for the terrain, that required a pretty much 100% new approach to how we were doing the graphics and trying to get the performance to a level that was needed to do the effect that was wanted. Since we were gonna add more units on the screen at once we had to find ways to be able to render more of them and to keep them animated without bogging the game down. And with the modding tools that we have we really wanted to push where we already had done successful stuff with Civ IV and take it to a new level, giving new tools like our new world builder that pretty much lets you build any scenario you want quickly. And it was an investment in technology. I mean it's stuff that we'll be using long term, but it's stuff that needed to be done.
DS:
And we think people, once they see the game in action – we had a little bit of this when we showed the game at PAX – is that people are generally unbelieving that that's possibly a Civilization game because it just looks amazing. The graphics team with Dan Baker, and Josh Barczak, John Kloetzli – they just went all out with driving everything that they could into this game while still keeping it as working as possible on older machines which is what I think is the most surprising. We've got a few versions of the game. For instance we have something for DX9 and DX11, they're working on deploying the 64-bit version so we're looking at it scaling extremely well whether you're on bleeding edge or whether you're on something older.
ET:
Civilization V looks different, the opposing civilizations play different and immerse you in the role of leader, and while all of this may seem very similar to a long-time Civ player, going in to the game with your Civ IV strategy-cap on will not yield you a victory. (Trust me, I know this from personal experience.) Likewise, as a newcomer to the franchise, there are some very simple new aspects of the game that sets Civ V apart from other strategy titles you may have played in the past – elements that you will need to master in order to succeed.
JS:
I think a good example of that would be the city-states. They really change the diplomatic flavor of the game. In previous games it was very much a competition with every other player. You wanted to beat them all. None of them were on your side. The city-states are a big departure from that because they don't ever, you know, purposefully go and fight you, they're not trying to win the game, they're not gonna really go and expand and cut you off. They're there to be your friend in some ways. Or, you know, to have you conquer them. And that's something that's really new to the game and we think that's really going to shake up particularly on the diplomatic side of things how people play the Civ game.
DN:
One thing that changes the way that I play the game is the way that I build up an army. It's very hard to hide the fact that you're building up an army unless you build it very close to the center of your capital. And when you send out an army it's very easy to see how big of a force you're bringing and whether you have catapults or not. And so the timing and the way that you maneuver around the battlefield and the way that you engage the enemy is radically different and it's very rewarding when you take someone out.
DS:
Me personally? I have new features and game moments every day. Today's actually has been the feeling you get with (inaudible) of sweeping ahead of your armies with these gorgeous helicopter gunships and laying waste to everything, opening the way for your armor to drive in behind it and destroy everything else.
BW:
Well I like the new tactical combat a lot. And I know that Dorian kind of was hinting at that but the fact that units have better roles and better defined roles than they may have in earlier Civs. An archer shoots from range. As long as there's space between him and his enemy he can safely lob arrows at that guy all day. Now if somebody gets close to him then he's probably dead. But it's a matter of how you position is every bit as important as just what you bring to the battlefield.
DS:
And aside from cool stuff like gunships I'm normally a builder and a culture player, and the stuff that Jon's done with culture, it was probably, at least from my perspective, something that he really went to great lengths to make it right. Because we wanted to make culture really interesting and have a really big impact in the game and what he managed to accomplish with culture and the policy tree was really intriguing because now with culture you're actually unlocking all of these abilities all throughout time for your civilization as a whole. And the results of it means that you can have something completely different in terms of a civilization. Not just in terms of the units and the buildings that you have but of the way your whole kingdom works, all based on culture which is strikingly different from how it was before and an immense amount of fun.
DN:
I'm also getting a kick out of how differently you play to beat the game from a different approach. The way that you would play culturally versus the way that you wanna play diplomatically. It's sort of been fun to hear new features that are being added in and playing through them and seeing how different of an experience it is. It makes me wanna, you know, as we're continuing to refine the game, it makes me wanna play through again the way I beat it a month ago to see all the other new little additions that have changed. I don't know, it's just very exciting. It feels new each time I boot it up and I have a different idea of how to approach it and I find that to be pretty exciting.
ET:
Obviously, we’ve still only touched the tip of the iceberg in terms of all things Civilization V, however, we have many more podcasts to dig deeper into all of these topics (and more that we haven’t even touched on today.) Before I let the guys go, though, I did have one last question. The team, as you may know, is very in tune with their community – always reading the forums and getting feedback from fans. Since Civilization V’s announcement, they have already received a boatload of feedback, and reactions to new features have been nothing short of passionate. Looking forward, knowing all the other information that is yet to be revealed, I wanted to know how they expected people to receive the journey we were about to take them on.
DS:
I fully expect people to be buying six to seven copies of the game in the first couple weeks.
JS:
Or else... Yeah, obviously there are going to be some people that are really excited about the changes we made and there's gonna be other people that aren't quite as thrilled.
BW: Yeah the, “you've broken my favorite feature...”
JS:
Yeah, sorry guys. But the main thing we really want to do with Civ V is to put forward something new and this is something Dennis was touching upon. We didn't wanna make Civ 4.5, you know. Civ IV has been made. It's an excellent game. It's not going anywhere. So we really wanna push the envelope and try new things and see, you know, what we could explore in the Civ universe and still make a Civ game but, you know, again try new things and make it real exciting and give a reason for people to come back to Civ and really want to play it and get excited about it again, even if they've been playing for the 20 years that the franchise has been around.
DS:
There's always gonna be a mindset switch that's needed because if you've been playing Civilization IV for the last 4 years of your life and you suddenly have to switch to something new there's going to be a period where people are like, “this isn't familiar to me. What do I do? How do I do this?” And we've actually gone to great lengths to put systems in place in the game to kind of shepherd people from one of the other ones so they can understand what's going on and kinda jump in. And for those that never ever ever wanna change we've got a great suite of modding tools for Civilization V that will allow them to insert the functionality that they would like into the game as well.
DN:
My hope from the art side is that as interesting or as challenging as the changes have been, after you play Civ V and you load up Civ IV you can't go back and you decide to say, “oh darn it I like how much this looks so much, let me give it another round.” And then you realize how great and deep the game is underneath there. And we spent a lot of time making sure that hopefully as you play nothing feels accidental. We're trying to give you an illustrated experience and that means we spent a lot more time making sure all the button art, all the wonders that you see in the game are sort of hand painted, they look hand crafted so you know that each part of the game was cared about. We just didn't fill in the blanks. We really wanted to make people feel rewarded at each level as they went and played through history.
ET:
To end the session, Pete Murray, Firaxis’ Marketing Associate (who you don’t hear from directly in this recording, but I assure you will be around in time) asked what he called a “Fresh Air Question” – Everyone on the dev team came from a Civ background and, like myself, had strong emotions to be at the helm of such a history game. How did that feel? What was it like, to know you were going to be creating the game that would be called Civilization V?
DN:
For me it was a mixed bag because having been around for a while you always take for granted, you know, the franchises that you have. And so I was both going, “oh no this is a really huge thing and I could really screw it up.” There's that fear. And the other side of me was like, “I wanna make whoever follows me in this role have a very hard time.” So I don't know if that's – I mean I was thrilled because, you know, being a fan you always have 3 or 4 things you'd love a chance to fix. And visually I was like, “well this is the – if I don't like these few things, this is the time to fix it.” And I'm given that responsibility. But it's very humbling to think about how many people play the game and see it and a lot of times Civ is a game that's loved by the game players and the art is secondary. And I definitely didn't wanna ruin a game by making the art get in the way of the game play and so I wanted to be very careful with that balancing act.
DS:
Dorian pretty much touched on it in terms of thrilling and terrifying at the same time. Because you're taking on something as storied as Civilization, Sid Meier's greatest work, and saying we're gonna make Civilization V. It's the followup to Civilization IV considered, you know, best strategy game of all time. And you're gonna do something that's gonna be even cooler. So in that term it's an incredible challenge and you're like, “wow this is something that can be really amazing” and “holy crap I really hope we don't screw this up.” And now that we're where we're at – at this particular time we're, you know, halfway through alpha – it's right there and I think that we've really really pulled it off. But when you first start on this? Yeah it can be pretty terrifying knowing what you're working with.
JS:
For me it was – when I first found out I was actually, from that point on I was very focused on the game and I kinda hit the ground running. At that point it was just Dorian and I and, you know, Dorian – I love the man but he can't program.
DN: Working on the AI these past few months has been great...
JS:
Yeah we've moved the entire art team onto AI. You'll find out what the results of that are soon. But for me I was mainly – I was excited by the opportunity. As a long-time Civ fan there were a lot of things that I wanted to do and at that point the sky was the limit. We knew we wanted to do things differently. There was some things that we planned on changing. Hexes were something that came out really early. The combat system was something that came out really early. And just hit the ground running on those things and have just been plugging away ever since then on them.
DS:
And when he says he's been plugging away since then he means that literally. He actually hasn't stopped to sleep or eat or go to see a movie, probably in the last two years or so.
JS: About three I think.
BW:
Like Dorian and Dennis, it was a combination of being very excited at the opportunity and scared – terrified of, “god can we pull this off?”
ET:
Thank you for joining me for the first episode of the Civilization V Podcast series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and we’ll be back next time for a more in-depth look at the latest iteration of this world-renowned series from Firaxis.
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Podcast 2 : The Art of Civilization V
«
Réponse #2 le:
11 Juil 2010 à 01:45 »
Episode 2 :
Le graphisme de Civilization V
Dans ce deuxième podcast, Elizabeth reçois Dorian Newcomb ( Lead Artist ) et Arne Schmidt ( Building and Structures Lead ) pour discuter autour de l'apparence et de l'interface du jeu.
Elizabeth Tobey:
The hallways of Firaxis are fairly quiet these days – the time before beta, when everyone has their head down and is working tirelessly to perfect the upcoming game. But the walls of studio are lined with artwork – from concept sketches to renders in almost every phase of polish – because Civilization V does not lack style. From the UI to the elaborately designed unit icons, art was a major focus for the game’s creators.
In our second episode of the Civilization V podcast series, I sit down with Dorian Newcomb, Lead Artist, and Arne Schmidt, Building and Structures Lead, and discuss how they created the look of the game. To begin, I lob a big one at Dorian and ask him to explain to me what was his major objective when designing the game.
Dorian Newcomb:
Wow. We had a series of objectives and the two I think that relate to the world the best are that we wanted the world to look vast and diverse so when you looked across the landscape you’d see a wide range of textures and shapes and colors and as you explored different regions of the world you would discover more continents, different types of vegetation, just more stuff. And then as you played the game and as you developed your civilization the hope would as you improved your land you’d be transforming the chaos into something more ordered. And that’s a lot of what Arne was bringing in. So I give him these large goals – “hey make chaos into order.” And then he makes things happen.
Arne Schmidt:
And then on top of that, he also asked us to make it look both believable and somewhat romanticized. So a lot of it has been sort of trying to take somewhat differing ideals and make the two things work together. One of the things we’ve sort of said is that we want Civ V to look kind of like the Hollywood version of history in that everything is glitzy and glamorous and it’s not gritty and dark like the dark ages. We want it to be a journey you want to go on.
ET:
That look Arne talks about – the Hollywood version of history – has another term in the studio. Some call it Works Progress (which may evoke many different images for those of you who are history buffs.) This design concept helped guide the look and feel of the game tremendously.
DN:
We actually have a few different terms that we throw around when we were describing the art style of the game. So our initial inspiration was historical fiction and Hollywood epics. From that idea of playing through history, as we approached other parts of the game we decided to take on visuals that matched our history that tend to be important in history. So we have a bunch of wonder paintings and those are displayed as 19th century romanticized history paintings. And when it came to the interface, there were two different parts to the interface. There’s the framing elements and those are the things that – outline, the button shapes, the colors – and a form of architecture that’s really successful in compartmentalizing parts is art deco. And so we knew that we wanted to have art deco inspiration as the way that we would frame the game. But within those panels and the illustrations that you saw, it was really exciting. The WPA arts movement that happened when Roosevelt was trying to get America out of the depression had great poster images and very good reads at a glance and we know that we want people to look at the button and understand exactly what it is right away. And so it was a combination of the art deco style and the WPA styling interface that I was really excited about putting together. And once we put it together it just seemed to fit and we didn’t need to look at it again, just go with it.
ET:
This grand art style really does echo the basis of the game, because Civilization is not just a strategy series. It is a game where you control history and mold famous empires to your own particular style. While history is the backbone of this game, you have the power to remake time. But beyond that feeling and power of being the master of history and time, the world had to look believable – the ground, trees, and water all feel very real and organic. Balancing that realism with the Hollywood ideal was no easy task.
AS:
Well I’m predominantly responsible for cities. One of the things we tried to do with cities is that in previous Civs cities pretty much start in the center of a square and just grow straight out in all directions and we’re trying to change that. We’re trying to give it a road network. We’re trying to have it relate to the terrain. So if you build a city on the coast it actually sits on the coast. And a lot of this was helped by the way that the world looks because we used hexes instead of squares. No matter how you lay out a square grid the human eye will always tell you it is a square grid. But as soon as you add those two extra sides to every tile, everything starts looking more organic. And a little bit of variation in any given line going along those six sides stops looking like a pre-planned line. So the whole world looks more organic and diverse than it’s ever looked before and now we’re putting cities inside that organic environment that look more specific and in place in that world than they’ve ever looked before.
DN:
In a lot of ways this involved trust with the programmers as we were trying things that an artist on their own couldn’t just put into a game. We showed a lot of concepts, we had a lot of conversations with some very smart, almost brilliant - maybe brilliant, I’ll give them brilliant – programmers. And they would say well if you want this look, it will take me a few months to implement this series of very complex names that I can’t give you right now. That’ll be another podcast. And what we would do is we would make the art in pieces the way that you’d put together just about any game. But they’d arrange it in a way that was based on concepts and create that variety and that excitement level. But if we didn’t have a good trust relationship and if we weren’t communicating the same ideas we would have never gotten such a stellar look.
AS:
In fact this is the – of all the games I’ve ever worked on – this has been the one where I’ve had the most back and forth interaction with a programmer who was helping me make my art look the way I wanted it to in the game but also have it look unique every time you see it. Previously, again, if you get back to a square grid it makes things look the same every time. So it’s very easy to go to a programmer and say, “ok on this square grid I want it to look this way” and they’re gonna make it look exactly that way. But now that we’ve got this much more organic world we have a lot more flexibility in what we can do so the programmers are having to take on sort of an artistic concept which we’re kind of guiding them in how to realize in the game. So there’s been a lot of back and forth between the two disciplines, much more so than on any previous project I’ve worked on.
ET:
Making an organic and believable world is one enormous task in its own right, but Civilization V required more than just a static, believable world. You begin at the dawn of time and go far into the future over the course of the game, and the art had to change significantly to evoke that movement through the ages.
AS:
Well there’s two ways that that happens. It grows in time chronologically and then as you get more advanced the world gets more advanced, your buildings and improvements and units get more technologically advanced. But as the same time, as you’re exploring the world, we’ve made it so that the various continents look very different from each other. So you may start the game with one set of colors being the predominant set, you cross a small stretch of ocean and all of a sudden the landscape looks totally different. The lighting will be different, the colors of the trees, the ground, everything about the world evolves as you’re moving through it. So there’s sort of two paths to how the game looks different as you progress through it. The things you’ve already revealed update through time and the things that you haven’t revealed are different as you encounter them.
DN:
As far as changing the look as well. You know, Civ is a game not just where you have battles or where you build cities but it’s also a game where every part of the landscape you’re gonna want to develop and change. And so early on with the road networks as Arne was describing we started to add farms and even pretty early on as you’re playing it looks like a wilderness and it gets transformed into beautiful farmland country and you have, you know, spices in rows and wine in rows that are being developed. And just that alone, cultivating the land and seeing the players decisions change everything about the terrain that they’re on I think is pretty compelling.
ET:
Compelling is a very modest way to encapsulate the look Arne and Dorian have achieved with Civilization V. From an outsider who has tinkered with the different builds as they creep closer and closer to the final version, watching the world grow and change around me is nothing short of awesome. You have total control over the landscape, and want to honor the ground that your civilization grows out of, and through all the details beyond the game itself – from the tiniest detail on the HUD to the changing icons of units and buildings – the art style more than successfully creates a compelling world that you want to spend tens (or in my case hundreds) of hours immersed in.
I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and this concludes the second episode of the Civilization V podcast series. We’ll be back next time to take a closer look at the characters of the game.
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Podcast 3 : Characters in Civilization V
«
Réponse #3 le:
11 Juil 2010 à 01:52 »
Episode 3 :
Les personnages de Civilization V
Elizabeth, Brian Busatti (Lead Modeler and Environment Artist), Chris Hickman (Lead Animator) parlent des personnages de Civilization V et comment ils ont essayé de les rendre plus interactifs, plus plausible et plus réalistes que dans les précédentes éditions.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to Episode Three of the Civilization V Podcast Series. Today, I am joined by Brian Busatti, Lead Modeler and Environment Artist, and Chris Hickman, Lead Animator, to talk about the art and characters in Civilization V. Because while Civilization may be a game about remaking history and ruling famous empires yourself, you are also pitted against famous personalities from all ages, and doing those likenesses justice was no easy task. The characters are not merely 3D representations of historical figures, but a depiction of these people to fit within the world and character of the entire game, and I wanted to know what the team’s process looked like to create these characters.
Brian Busatti:
Well first of all we got together as a group of designers and artists and animators and just decided kind of what personality traits were the most important parts for the leaders. And we came up with the ages and kind of their motivations and just basically traits that they would have. Some you might expect, some we decided to choose or change a little bit to adjust because of the game play style.
Chris Hickman:
In terms of how we start animating a character, we try to get inside their head kind of, try to figure out what they stand for, what do they want out of life, what motivates them, are they thoughtful, impulsive – and from there, that guides us in how we figure how they react to different situations. We tried to make sure that out of all the leaders in the game, no two personalities are alike at all. You get a different experience with each leader that you play with.
ET:
As I said before, leaders span all the ages – you can haggle with Caesar and Gandhi in the same game. Choosing the empires to appear in Civilization is no easy task, and picking the perfect figure to represent that empire is perhaps even more difficult. Being able to meld those people together into a coherent story? Well, that’s the challenge Brian and Chris struggle with every day.
BB:
Well I mean you can't avoid the different time periods. We just try to keep a consistent style in our artwork. For example, a lot of the leaders, we went with an idealized form and we didn't wanna make Gandhi like – in the past we've had characters like Gandhi look kinda weak. He's almost like a cartoon character; we exaggerate a lot of his proportions. In this example we really wanted to make him look more idealized and look more powerful. Some of that stuff came from references we found – we found this one really cool-looking statue of him that just showed a lot of power in him. It still represented Gandhi but we felt that was a really good basis for the model. And uh getting back to like the difference between Washington and Caesar – the main thing was we wanted the personality to come through, and we wanted the environments to play a bigger part. So you're visiting their world, you're not necessarily looking for somebody that's in the same time period.
CH:
Conceptually how it was explained to me was we wanted to place the player in a direct interaction with a character. We didn't want it to feel like it was stock footage that came from the 1930's or this was theatrical stuff that was filmed many years ago. We want it to be a live interaction. What the player does, the leader is reacting to you, so we wanted to make sure that it was a very live-feeling thing. We didn't use theatrical style cameras. We tried to make it a shot sort of from a POV of the player so you just feel like you're there standing with the person.
ET:
Chris talks about one of the most obvious changes for leaders in Civilization V: You no longer see them just as a head as in previous iterations of the series, but instead as a full character, standing in a scene that makes sense with their history and adds to the impact of their words and mannerisms, speaking in their native tongues. These settings were considered and polished just as much as the character models. Without one, the other would not be nearly as powerful.
BB:
Oh it was really important. If you look at some of the differences between some of the characters like Askia is in a very, like it's a war-torn environment. Smoldering buildings and just destruction everywhere. You realize right away that he's not somebody that's going to be easy to get along with. And then you look at somebody like Gandhi who's much more peaceful. And it kinda goes with their game play style like the AI for the character.
CH:
And just kind of in hitting some of those personality things and the differences – Gandhi was really an important leader to me. I wanted to make sure he wasn't treated as a caricature. I wanted to be very respectful to who he was and who he stood for. He was animated by Greg Marlow who did a wonderful job. Gandhi is strong in his convictions and his personality, not in his military might. You may be fighting him in the game but his real weapon when interacting with you is kind of making you think are you making moral choices that are correct, instead of, “I'm going to come at you with a whole army.” So we have leaders that go from the selfless side, like Gandhi, to someone who is much more selfish, like Augustus Caesar, who is just bored with the whole situation. He doesn't care about the player. You're there, he doesn't really look at you. He doesn't really interact with you. The only time he really notices you is if you defeat him and he says, “oh you're kind of a worthy opponent after all.” And even going further than that – and Greg Marlow also animated Caesar. He got to do a very wide range of personalities and did a great job. Askia is kind of on the extreme far end of that. He is very self-righteous. He is a very powerful character and he believes he's doing God's bidding. So whatever he does is right morally. If you defeat him, his thoughts are, “you're gonna burn in hell.” So it's a huge range there from trying to make people to make better choices to thinking you're damned for what you do.
ET:
The difficulties of creating a cohesive look and feel for each character in concept was no small task, and once those concepts were finalized, making them believable and beautiful from a technical standpoint was a new and interesting challenge altogether. In fact, throughout my visit to the studio, Pete Murray, Marketing Associate at Firaxis, kept raving about Montezuma, who they had just finished before I arrived, and how amazing the fire and feathers looked in his final render. These characters have their own specific technology to make them look as realistic and imposing as possible.
BB:
Yeah there's actually, we've got a lot more technology behind this than past products. If you start with Civ IV, and you look at the very small window that you could see the leader, basically there's shoulders and some hand movement with a simple background. The next project we did was Civ Revolution and we decided to go with the waist. So they weren't leader heads, it's a tough thing to break. We keep calling them leader heads but then they became leader torsos. But it was a really cool way to get more personality because you're not just seeing the small window, you're actually seeing broad arm movements. But they didn't have backgrounds because we wanted a weather man effect. Civ V we wanted to just go with full character – put them in any kind of situation we wanted to. And the backgrounds and environments became just as important as the character themselves.
CH:
In animation we've been super impressed with the work that modeling has done on the environments and the characters and they really drive us to have to work even harder on the animation to try to hold that up because they're doing such an idealized fantastic looking set of models and stuff if we slip up on our side it really shows so they've really helped guide us into doing a better job all around.
BB:
And there's a lot of back and forth too between modeling and animation. It's really important to make sure that the model is going to animate correctly so we have to communicate all the time. I send stuff to Chris, he checks it out. Sometimes he makes some modifications to them but, you know, there's a lot of teamwork involved in it. We've got a really solid team working on it.
CH:
We up ressed the rigs on the characters up. 3D characters are driven by essentially points in space that form bones in a character. I don't know the exact amount because I didn't work here at the time but I think in some of the earlier version of Civilization a character might have 200 bones in them. The base character that we use in this game has 1200 bones. Some of them go to 1800, 2000 bones. Luckily they've done a great job on the engine and I can throw tons of things at it and it still runs it great. We created a custom rig for the faces so that the animators can, in 2d, essentially sculpt the shapes that they need to be able to do the lip sync and the performance and it makes it a lot easier, faster, and a lot more interactive.
BB: We also have some really powerful shaders now. One of the most – my favorite things – is the subsurface skin scattering. It really makes the skin feel more alive and less plasticky – gives them a lot of warmth that you don't see in a regular standard shader. We have a lot of different materials that we can simulate now, we're a pretty powerful system. We can do really convincing cloth velvet. We have a hair tangent shader that works really well to simulate how the highlights change on the hair. That's just some of the shaders we have, and there's different ways we can mix them.
Pete Murray:
Just real quick, are there leaders that you particularly like the way they come across in the game?
ET:
You just want to talk about Montezuma right now.
PM:
I love Montezuma! He's awesome!
ET:
That’s Pete, who I talked about just a minute ago. I told you he liked Montezuma.
CH:
Actually we can – one of the things that's kind of interesting when you're thinking the character is everybody reacts to a situation differently. Catherine, for example, who was animated by Greg Cunningham, is very flirtatious and very much involved with the player. Montezuma is in a theatrical setting and he's actually playing to a large audience and the player is actually just a pawn in the game that he's playing with the large audience around him. So trying to decide how the leader is reacting to the situation he's in is very important to driving the animation.
BB:
Montezuma is one of my favorites. The scene and just the character model in general. David Jones is the modeler that worked on him. He did a great job with it. It's kind of sad – it's like, “oh he'd be so cool to model” but I'm really happy with what he did with it. And the animation just comes together really well.
CH:
He was animated by Alex Kim and he did a great job on him. And just in terms of sort of some of the accuracy we tried to get along the way, Oda who was really well animated by Dan Perry is the Japanese leader, and my wife is Japanese so she actually came in and sat in for the audio recordings to make sure those were done precisely and then instead of my actually directing that performance I would take play blasts home to my wife and she would tell us if it was reading as the Japanese performance that was relatively accurate. And she would find footage for us to look at, suggesting this is how Oda might have acted. So that was very helpful. Wu, who is the Chinese Empress in the game, was actually animated by a Chinese animator – so as much as we can get it correct for the culture that it's from.
ET:
Leaders in Civilization V are much like the historical gameplay – realistic and immersive, yet distinct enough to allow you to stray from the realities of the past and make the world your own. They are technical and visual marvels – feathers and fire, fur and silk – and they are more alive than any Civ leaders in the past, complete with their own mannerisms, voices, and languages (even the dead ones.) The team left no stone unturned in creating complete and lifelike characters and beautiful settings to place them in for you to negotiate and collude with, or perhaps threaten and war against. It’s all up to you.
This concludes the third episode of the Civilization V Podcast Series. Join us next time as I round up the audio team to discuss the sounds of the game.
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Podcast 4 : A Believable World
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Réponse #4 le:
11 Juil 2010 à 01:56 »
Episode 4 :
Une immersion sonore plus réaliste
Elizabeth s'assoie avec l'équipe de développement pour parler des sons et musiques de Civilization V et comment ils espèrent donner plus de vie au jeu et d'immersion au joueur en faisant une ambiance sonore plus globale que dans les précédentes versions.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the fourth episode of the Civilization V Podcast Series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and today, Michael Curran, Audio Lead, and Geoff Knorr, Composer and Orchestrator, sit down with me to talk about the sounds and music of Civilization V and how they make the world feel living, breathing, and believable.
Michael Curran:
You know when you talk about believability, it's, it's believable rather than realistic because of game play and just the kind of odd scale and things that the player needs to hear. But um, we, in previous iterations of Civ, we really only had a world ambiance for the tile that you're selected on. And it was an audio soundscape. You know, if you were centered on a forest, you got a little breeze, and leaves, and birds, and things like that – little forest noises. And it was, you know, very, you know, believable forest ambiance. However as a player if you're looking at the screen you see all this other stuff around. You know we were kind of limited by what we could do and so in Civ Rev, you know, sort of wanted to help that along a little. And we did manage to put ocean waves on objects that were near the coast. So it kinda gave it a little bit more, you know, a little bit more realistic feel to it, but we were limited by the objects. So if there were no fish or there was a die resource near the coast – if those weren't around, we didn't get the ocean. So in Civ V, you know, really very early on planned to try to get everything. You know, everything you could see we wanted to be able to hear it in a very realistic way. And uh, and we achieved that. So I think um, you know, it's a much more believable scene when you're looking at it.
ET:
Michael talks about ambient noise – the game’s soundscape – which is something gamers may not immediately notice and appreciate when playing the game. Ambient noise, after all, is supposed to blend into the background. The way Civilization V handles these natural sounds of the world around your units, however, brings forward the sounds of the forest, the splashing of whales along the coast, the chirping of birds… And really boosts the impact of moving from tundra to icy terrain. But the realistic sounds don’t stop with just nature. Battle is something that cannot be avoided in Civilization V, and having a realistic battle necessitates realistic battle sounds.
MK:
Well the same sort of believable vs. real exists there too, you know? We, you know, came to Civ V with the ability to put um, individual sounds attached to the animations so that, you know, when a character in a unit puts his foot down you hear a footstep and so on. As much detail as we wanted to put into it. With Civ IV and Civ Rev, you know, if you have three units down – three characters down at once doing things – it's a lot of sounds firing off, OK? And it sounds pretty good, I mean I like the result of it but with Civ V we knew we were gonna have – well originally we didn't really know. We knew it was gonna be a lot more um um – and so we did some mockups of combat with groups of characters in a unit fighting each other. And, you know, immediately it, you know, we knew we didn't, we weren't interested in putting feet down for, you know, we just needed, you know, an overall ambiance of movement. You know, so we did these group mixes that sounded very believable for a large group fighting. And so then it was just a question of how are we gonna implement this, because as your characters die off in the unit, you might be left with two, or three, or one. And so we still needed the basic marker system. We still needed to be able to call a foot where a foot hit and you know, a gun smacking an arm. You know, all those little details still needed to be there. So um, so what we're, what we ended up with is a system that uses those – all the unit characters have lots of detail synced little sounds that go with the animations but as the group has more than three characters, let's say, you know, four to ten, we drop out some of those markers and play a group sound. And then there's another group sound for a larger group. So it kinda uses a combination of both. We still need the specific sound on queue for things like gunfire or people falling and things like that. So it's a mix of both and uh, yeah I think it's a pretty good system and calls a lot less sounds.
ET:
Beyond soundscapes and battle cries, there is no lack of music in Civilization V. Each empire has its own distinct musical score with many variations depending on the situation at hand. The team put an enormous amount of work into making those sounds work perfectly which each individual civilization.
MK:
OK, well, you know, there are a couple things we wanted to do when we set out to, you know, come up with a good audio design for Civ V. And one thing that I've always wanted to do since I've worked on Civ games is to try to bring in more – and this goes for just sound in general, the speech, rather, along with music – is to really represent all the cultures, all the civs that we have in the game more equitably. Civ IV sound track was entirely western based and by error. So we want that Asian music, we want to have middle eastern and so on. And so we knew we wanted to have a much broader range of music. And in addition to that, um, you know we wanted to um, we wanted to also evoke that culture with speech. So all the leaders, we decided, would speak their own language. And so there's a real different feel for the game depending on who you play as. And so, and Jeff feel free to chime in! You give a good deal to music. Jeff and I both composed most of the music in the game that we did here in house. But anyway, getting back to the sound track design. So we have four regions in the world and that's reflected in the art too. So for each region, we have two playlists: war and peace. So when you're at peace with everybody you get the peace playlist. And when you start to be at war with another civ, it goes to the war sound track playlist. And most of that is licensed music that we've selected.
Geoff Knorr:
Yeah um, well for the leaders, what Michael and I have done and – well we've done most the leaders and Roland and Ian have done I think one or two. But we made these leader pieces to kind of represent the leader when they're at peace and when they're at war. And we wanted to take an actual melody from that leaders culture and make it into this kind of – combine it with the western orchestra and make this really awesome representative piece of that culture. So usually the first step was just searching, trying to find what that melody is that when someone from that culture listens they'll pick it out and they'll be, “yeah, that's my country.” And so we wanted that sense of national pride to be there in the melodies we chose. We tried as hard as we could – sometimes we end up with, you know, with ancient Rome, we end up with just little fragments that we found of stuff. So once we find something then it's just a matter of sketching things out and trying out different ethnic instruments and combining those with the symphony orchestra instruments and I think in most of my pieces the melody is more obvious in the peace – when you're at peace with a leader. And then in the war piece, I'll do different things with it like invert it, or do it backwards, and do all these kind of like compositional things which maybe people will catch up when they listen, we'll see.
MK:
As a player your experience is much more specific to that culture that you're playing as than it ever has been before. So when you start a game, the player will first hear their own leader's peace music and that starts the game sound track. And then when that's through, it goes through the peace playlist of that region. So if you're, you know, if you're playing as Napoleon you'll get Napoleon's peace theme, and then it'll go through a Europe peace sound track playlist, until you go to war. One of the neat things that we did with leader music here that's different from the other Civs is that it really is integrated with the sound track completely. I mean you hear the leader music in the world, you hear it in the leader screens, and, you know, hopefully it all meshes together very well. I think it does, but... But if you go to a leader screen and you might declare war – and when that happens you get the leader's war music and then that would continue until it was through and then you would go through a war playlist of your region.
ET:
Beyond sounds, beyond music, there was one last auditory aspect of Civilization V I wanted to know more about: The languages of the leaders. For the first time ever, when you meet a head of state, you hear them speak in their own language – even if that language is a dead language by modern standards.
MK:
We knew of a studio that was very good at finding just about any language you could come up with, including dead languages. And so we knew where to go to find actors for this. And so all the speech was recorded. We directed it – basically Dorian N. was very involved in that and he had a good sense of the character so he did most of the directing of that. And then the artists are lip syncing the animations to it and so our involvement has not been real – all that much really. Just sort of coordinating it all so it happens and then the artists are really doing everything with that.
JN:
Sometimes it's really exciting to hear the different languages like I remember when we did Ramses I think it was – you just listen to this guy, and he just sounds terrifying.
ET:
I’m sure the guys have properly illustrated how much music and sound is in Civilization V and how they are trying to push the believable world into new and different realms by immersing senses beyond sight into the game. And, if you’ve seen the first Civilization V trailer (which I’m sure all of you have) you have already heard a slice of the game already. The music in that trailer is a slice of Elizabeth’s war music. So you might want to go and give the video another watch (and listen) to see how that changes things for you.
We’ll be back next time with the fifth episode of our podcast series, focusing on the game’s engine.
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Podcast 5 : All About the Engine
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Réponse #5 le:
17 Juil 2010 à 19:45 »
Episode 5 :
Un nouveau moteur pour le jeu, mais pourquoi ?
Elizabeth parle avec une partie de l'équipe qui a créé le nouveau moteur du jeu afin d’expliquer pourquoi ils ont préféré créer un nouveau moteur plutôt que de se servir de l'existant.
Elizabeth Tobey:
For the fifth episode of the Civilization V podcast series, I sit down to talk with part of the team who created the new engine for the game. As you are probably aware, building an engine from scratch is not an easy task. Dan Baker, Graphics Lead at Firaxis, described the experience for me.
Dan Baker:
So, you know, it's kind of like building a car road – you build your own engine. And the answer is if you're just wanting to get from point A to point B you probably wouldn't, but if you're a formula 1 race car you build your own stuff because it has to be competitive. And the honest truth is that Civ deserves a custom engine. We aren't building a generic game, we're building Civ, and so the engines on the market aren't really suited to the type of game, so we really felt pretty strongly that we should build an engine that's going to give the Civ player the best experience.
ET:
Tim Kipp, Systems Lead on Civilization V, further explains more about why they created a new engine, and what the team gained from the endeavor.
Tim Kipp:
I mean Dan is exactly right in that when we looked at what Civ V needed and we talked to the designer, and we talked to the lead artist, and we talked to everybody else, we realized that there was really nothing on the market that was going to be as scalable as what we wanted and provide the game player at the end of the day the experience that was really sufficient for what Civ V could be. So with their help and their guidance they let us go ahead and build it from scratch and the successful part about that for us is that we've been able to take the designer's vision and the artist's vision and we haven't had to compromise yet in terms of what it is that they wanted. And that was really our – you know the goal wasn't necessarily just could we get there as fast as we possibly could but could we actually create the vision that these guys wanted to have for the game and I think by and large we've been able to do that.
DB:
And in my kind of geeky technical thing, there are really two things that we thought – that we really wanted to be able to do that we thought needed a custom engine. One is that we really wanted to make these random believable worlds. Unlike a lot of games or this carefully scripted experience, Civ is about randomness. It's about randomness but a unique world every time you play so we really wanted to have these random worlds that looked as good as hand-made stuff. So there was no technology on the market – we had to invent a lot of stuff to be able to do that. And the other thing is that Civ is also a game about scale. I mean the game has a lot of stuff in it. I mean your world fills up with – Tim's laughing – the amount of stuff that you can build it's beyond what any game does. So we have to be able to – the needs of our game exceed most games by an order of magnitude. So that was the two major reasons why we realized we needed to build something custom.
John Kloetzli:
I just have to say that this is the first project that I've worked on where we've completely built our own stuff from scratch and just as an engineer working on the system it's been much easier than having to conform to someone else's ideas of what you should be because you only build the parts that you need and you build them exactly the way that you need them. You don't have to conform anything to someone else's idea of what a game engine should be. Just from my perspective as a graphics engineer that was much less frustrating than a typical project.
Josh Barczak:
Yeah it definitely gives you a lot of freedom during development that you just wouldn't have if you started with an entire code base ready-made. You don't always know what your exact requirements are going to be so the best way to build something that meets your exact requirements is to just do it from the ground up.
ET:
That’s John Kloetzli, Graphics Programmer, and Josh Barczak, Senior Graphics Programmer, who were also integral in making the Civilization V engine come to life. By now, you’ve probably noticed a pattern emerging in what these guys are talking about – scalability being a big buzz word that keeps returning whenever they talk about the how and why of the new engine. Civilization V is, in fact, very, very scalable (amazingly so in my opinion. I can’t tell you how floored I was to hear about the gamut of machines that the game will run on.) Making the game so resilient to a wide swath of different computers – from commuter laptop to beefy gaming machine – must have been a lofty goal.
TK:
I think there was a lot of careful planning that went into the design of the engine very very early on. I think there was also a lot of sort of very honestly looking at how games are produced, what needs to go into it. So effectively we've probably pulled away a lot of the extra glue and a lot of the extra (inaudible) that wind up weighing down a lot of engines and what we've got is something that's very clean. Very small set of code that does exactly what we want it to with very little to no side effects. And that's something that Dan designed the graphics layer from the ground up to be completely like that. And then we've designed the rest of the engine to be very very similar in that everything is there for a reason. There's nothing there that doesn't belong there and there's no code that gets executed for no reason whatsoever. And that's allowed us, at least in terms of efficiency, to scale very well on a single core. The second side of that is that Dan and I looked very hard at threading scalability in terms of how games typically wind up implementing that. Most of the games and the game engines you'll find out there are very functionally threaded which means they'll run physics on a thread, they'll run graphics on a thread. It's very very coarse. Very very coarse and beyond say the Xbox that doesn't scale very well. Once you get to quad core and beyond you just wind up running out of functional elements and you wind up requiring to subdivide. However if you design for a functional paradigm what happens is that trying to break that up into smaller pieces now introduces additional overhead. So we design everything from the ground up to be job-based, task-based, very well encapsulated so we've scaled up to, what is it, 12...
DB:
We've tested on 12 threads but, I mean, we don't have anything more than 12 to test on but we're pretty confident it'll work with a lot more. Yeah it's amazing how it spreads across the whole system.
JB:
And I think this also goes back to developing something that does exactly what we need it to do and what we want it to do. The more general – the engines that are out there on the market - the commercial engines – they're designed to be as generic as possible to cater to as many different possible customer configurations as they can and one of the drawbacks of that is the more general you try to be you inherently lose some performance as a result. You're going to be less streamlined. You don't know exactly what you're going to do up front so you kinda have to prepare for the worst case.
DB:
And I always liken to – my brother does autocross and he has his own little (inaudible) that he races and when you race on the track, you don't buy like a car off the street like a Civic or something because, you know, it's not designed for that. So his car doesn't have a lot of horsepower but, you know, the backseats are gone, there's no air conditioner, the power windows have been taking out, the tires are exactly special custom, and the thing performs orders of magnitude better. Now it's not a general case, but we're just trying to do something specific and you can get much much better performance and quality when you know this is exactly the type of thing that you're gonna be doing. And I just liken it to, you know, making a sports car or making a bust or something.
JB:
I think the other factor too is there really is a culture on this team of making the code as lean and as streamlined as it can possibly be. Which, paying attention to the small details as you're going along, little things add up. There are a lot of little things built into the game.
JK:
Yeah I think on this project one of the most valuable lessons is that the senior engineers set the tone for the project and if they're really concerned about the performance and really concerned about code optimization, constantly coming to the more junior guys and saying, “you know this is good but it could be a little better if we did it this way, a little better if we did it this way” - really sets the tone for the project and I think that's one of the main reasons why we're able to get the performance levels that we do get is because a lot of the senior engineers have really set that tone and it's fallen through to the rest of the engineering team.
ET:
Clearly, building the back end of the game took many more people than just the four in front of me – as with everything in Civilization V, the team worked as a cohesive whole to make the dream a reality. And in doing so, the team made technical innovations that they should be very proud of. And since so many gamers (myself included) so often never get a chance to look under the proverbial hood of a game and marvel at what makes the thing go – I wanted them to explain it to me.
DB:
One of the nice things about working here is that our secret sauce is making the game great. Gameplay great. So the cool thing about that is as a graphics guy I can actually talk about what we do because we don't consider that our competitive edge. And gosh there's so many things technically. Like I had to talk on Tuesday on all the stuff and you forget all the things. So I'll talk about a few of them and these guys can elaborate on some stuff that we did. There's like two different main modes to the game. There's the main game that you see and you're playing and there's this other whole thing where you go in and you actually talk to the leaders. And that's – they're completely different and rather than try and make the same engine part that does both of them they're actually quite a bit different and there's a lot of technology that we threw at it. The first set of technology we did is a lot of stuff – and I'll let John elaborate on some of the stuff that he worked on – was to make these custom worlds and blends. So the gameplay makes a custom world every time you start so one of the goals I had was to build a map that really looked like someone hand-painted it. And there's a lot of subtle technology dealing with that – a lot of procedural things and John if you wanna elaborate on...you did a lot of work on that.
JK:
Sure, yeah yeah Dan and I worked on that from the beginning. The terrain in the game is one of the oldest systems – in fact it might be the oldest system in the code base, the oldest Civ V system. So really what Dan and I did – we kind of sat down and said “how can we design this – add in limitations to the way the artists build the art so that we can build things procedurally?” So essentially we have the artist go through and build a large database of pieces which we can then map to whichever map script the designers hand us to build this randomized map on the fly. Because we have a large database of pieces we can pick out special configurations. Like, “oh look here's three mountain pieces that end up, you know, lined in this direction.” We can pick a special hand-made piece from the artist and fit it in there but it's like playing a big game of Tetris – you don't know exactly what's going to be next to you on all the different sides. So we spent a lot of time working on technology to get all these pieces to blend together correctly and then light them and do shadowing calculations and all those things.
DB:
One of the stories of the project has been this kind of symbiance between procedure and art direction and we really embraced that. For instance, one thing that happened - it was like a year ago I think about – where John comes in my office and the artist is just having trouble making these coastlines because they have to match up all this stuff exactly. I think we can do it with a spline. I thought about it for a minute and I'm like, “all right, try it. I think you're right I think we can do it with a spline.” So the coastlines and the rivers actually they're called program art. The program actually makes those because it turned out to be so labor-intensive for the artists to do it. And the artists were ecstatic because there's this huge amount of work that they were looking at to making perfect coastlines where we said, “you know what, we think we can make the computer do that tedious job for you.” And there's many other cases I won't get into that we procedurally handle stuff. One case, for instance, is the ice that we're putting in the game is also procedurally done with like artist influences. And, again, because it's a random world you can't hand-build this stuff. You have to have unique stuff so we've really embraced that and that's a very unique Civ.
TK:
It's also important to emphasize the fact that not only do you do that procedurally for the artist that the artist still has complete control over the outcome which is I think one of those cases where you didn't just stop, at the “we can generate this procedurally” but you then went the next step further which is really important which is, “how do I give the best control possible to the artist to get the result they want?” And, I mean, that's true throughout the entire terrain system. I mean everything that's there shows up the way the artist wants it to. So it's not just about the fact that we can generate these things procedurally but it's that we can capture what the artist wants to do and then reflect that accurately back.
JK:
I think that's one of the big differences between the way the research community looks at procedural generation of graphics content and the way that you have to do it in games. A lot of times – and it's gotten less so over the years – but the research community tends to think of things as completely procedural. I press a button and the terrain comes out the other side.
DB:
George Jetson.
JK:
Yeah but that's not really useful for us. We have to have controllable procedural. So it's something that the code is filling in all the details but it's controlled at a high level. Very tightly controlled at a high level by the art. We want exactly grassland here and exactly coast here, and that sort of thing.
ET:
The balance of art and realism, planned terrain and random, fresh worlds with each new game… Building an engine that expertly executes all of these elements is incredible in its own right. But Firaxis didn’t stop just with that aspect of the engine. In Civilization V, there is an entirely different view beyond the world map – when you approach leaders to wage war, negotiate peace, or barter for important resources – you enter a completely different view, and its visual fidelity is astounding. The way the leader engine works and was built is completely separate from the “main” view of the game.
JB:
It's another advantage of having a custom engine. The leader viewer is – Dan likes to jokingly call it the first person shooter that we're embedding into Civ V. It's really a very different system. It's got rendering needs that are fundamentally different than the rest of the game.
ET
: You don't shoot the leaders.
JB:
No you do not shoot the leaders.
DB:
This is our April Fool's Joke.
TK:
There could be a mod. There could always be a mod.
JB:
What I like the most about it – what I've enjoyed the most about working on it – is that it's essentially a sandbox. I have the entire machine available to me during that time, provided I don't use up too much memory, and I really get to pound on the GPU and to throw as much extra shading and as much extra visual quality into it as I can. It's a great platform for us to really show what we can do graphically.
DB:
And it's funny because we got a few comments here and there – people thought they were movies. And like “no those are actually – they're not. They're rendered in real time.”
TK:
Well when we first started, you know, we had concept artists that painted these entire scenes and everyone looked at those scenes and said wow those scenes are awesome. And we looked at that and said, “well is there any possible way that we can make that scene look that good in game?” And we had some visitors in I guess it was probably a month ago, and some of the leaders on the wall – we have a giant wall of leaders – half of them were concept art or pre-rendered stuff and the other half were in-game screenshots. And everyone that looked at them had – it took them at least, what, 10 seconds maybe to figure out which ones were which?
DB:
Oh yeah it was – we were like, “pick which ones are in-game.” And they're sitting there for a while, looking at them, looking at them. And it wasn't obvious what was actually being rendered and what was the concepts. They didn't look like what we're used to seeing in games so we were pretty happy about that.
JB:
And there's another key area of technical innovation in all of the compression stuff that we're doing for the leaders.
DB:
Yeah we have a lot of advanced technology in the engine too like a couple publications or one publication probably some pending publications – like the water rendering for instance is pretty high tech. A lot of it is about subtlety. You know people sit there and you don't realize it but we're not about making things flashy. A lot of games they want flashy and I don't know what you would call it – bling, bling is probably it. I got the bling, and we're all about not having the bling. So there's a lot of technology in making it not look blingy and just looking good and you're not gonna realize yeah we spent a lot of time making sure that the water didn't alias, it didn't shimmer, it looked correct when you zoomed in and out. And there's a subtle distance fog that kind of maps in at the edge of the world that's supposed to be very controllable. And we put a lot of time into that and yeah it's not bling, but all of that kind of adds together to give a unified experience.
ET:
One of the biggest questions every developer has to grapple with when creating a game is “do I license, or build from scratch?” As with everything in life, there are always limited resources, and limited time, when building a game – so you can’t always do everything, everywhere, amazingly. Firaxis’ decision to make a scalable engine that procedurally generates gorgeous graphical images (in two very distinct ways) is a monumental achievement for games. They didn’t have to go this route. There are dozens of ways that they could have made this task easier and still created a product that would have created a jaw-dropping experience for everyone, but instead, they went far, far above and beyond and made something veritably mind blowing. So far, after showing the game at GDC, E3, and to select press over the past few months, the response to this decision has paid off – people love the game. How did the team think the industry, as a whole, would respond to what they had built – and think about their choice to create rather than license and augment?
DB:
Good question, why build your own thing. I hope that from a technology standpoint, and I think people already do and I've talked to – I know a lot of the graphics leads and a lot of perks of the industry, a lot of friends of mine and we trade war stories. We go to GDC and you're on the table and you're telling a war story, “look what my artist did to me” and you know, scar here. “Look what my artist did to me.” And it's interesting hearing what their problems are and one of the things that kind of struck me is how we had built technology in certain areas that just far exceeded what people were telling me was possible. They said, “well you can't do that” and I'm like, “but we are.” And they're like “how are you doing that?” And I'm like “I don't know how you're not!” We don't understand like where certain situations where our performance is just beyond what even the hardware guys are telling us “but you can't do that” and we're like, “but we are.” And so in some situations I hope that the response is, “oh wow look what you can actually do.” A lot of times people say something's impossible until they see it done and then it's, “oh wait, yeah that could be done.”
TK:
Yeah I'd like to think there will be a lot of positive response from it. And generally the response I think traditionally depends on who you're talking to. In a lot of cases, engineers that have been in the industry a long time, they know if you're building something custom that you need to build something custom with it. When you're building a project that has a lot of specific requirements in it, trying to pull something general and make it perform to the characteristics that you need, typically takes longer than doing it the right way the first time. So I think if you ask a lot of experienced engineers they will say that this is probably very very obvious to them and why wouldn't you do it this way. Various marketing people or somebody else might have a different response especially if they work for a company that would like you to buy their technology. And if you work with a lot of people that have never actually built their own stuff before, a lot of times they only understand the works that they've worked in before. So it's, you know, in some cases when you're breaking new ground it's hard to get people's perspective to change a little bit in that regard. But I think we've gotten a tremendously positive response so far.
JB:
Yeah that was actually one of the questions that I had when I first came here actually is “why build your own engine?” You know, historically Firaxis has used Gamebryo and has shipped many successful titles that way. Why go branch out and build a custom code base? And I think the answer is that there's at least as much engineering effort in either path. Your game is still your game. It's still unique and you're still going to need to spend time adapting what you have to what you need to do. And there's just so many things that become easier if you can build the entire thing the right way the first time.
ET:
I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and we’ll be back next episode to discuss Civilization V’s user interface.
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Podcast 6 : The User Interface
«
Réponse #6 le:
27 Juil 2010 à 12:41 »
Episode 6 :
L'interface utilisateur
Elizabeth recois Mark Myer, le programmeur de l'U.I., et Russel Vicaro, le graphiste de l'U.I. qui nous parlent du comment et du pourquoi l'interface utilisateur ( U.I ) est une des parties fondamentale du jeu.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the Civilization V Podcast Series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and today I’m talking with Marc Myer, Lead User Interface Programmer, and Russel Vicaro, Lead User Interface Artist, about the how and why of one of the most fundamental parts of any Civ game: The UI. Being able to navigate the UI quickly and effectively is key to having an enjoyable gameplay experience, especially with a strategy game as involved and in depth as Civilization V. For this iteration of the series, the team not only revamped how things were organized to streamline and simplify the plethora of options, but they also paid particular attention to the aesthetics of the UI to make the game visually cohesive.
In the beginning, Russell didn’t have a ton to go on. He was given images of the game, and of concept art that was informing the entire look of Civilization V, and told to run with it, and make the UI echo these images.
Russell Vaccaro
: Dorian came to me – he’s the lead artist, which, you probably know about him – with paintings of how he envisioned the landscape looking. They were very painterly. So what I wanted was something to frame that nicely. I also wanted something that was different than pas Civs. Something that I really like is the art deco style. So I took two months and I kind of modeled and drew, painted – I just did everything I could to find out what it is to be art deco. I researched and during that time – let’s see what else I did – played a lot of Civ IV and took notes on things I would like to do to make this more accessible to every player instead of just what’s termed as like hardcore. That’s where the look and feel came for the UI and I’ve been getting really great response from it. Then we had the issue of thousands of icons. So early on I was finding these really beautiful posters in the art deco style. There tend to be - there’s like several different styles that show up. Each one just reeks of art deco so I wanted to have each icon look as good as those posters. Unfortunately, creating the UI and doing those icons as beautiful as I wanted required me to hire somebody else to do those beautiful icons that I wanted to do. We were very fortunate to get a painter from the Maryland Institute of College of Art, Jason Pastrana. He came on and started creating these icons about a year ago, and he’s just about finished. And he’s doing a wonderful job.
ET:
Designing hundreds of buttons aside, Russell’s explanation on how they technically created the look for the game’s UI brings up another important point – usability. There are dozens of menus and buttons for a player to use and even to the veteran Civ player, sometimes all these icons and options can be daunting. For Civilization V, the team reinvisioned how information was conveyed to the player - allowing the gamer to decide when to act on certain events and pay attention to pieces of the game at his own speed. The notification system puts all the tools and information necessary to conquer the world into your hands and empowers you to act rather than confusing you.
Marc Meyer:
Well we wanted to make sure that the player wasn’t overwhelmed with information. I mean there’s so much going on in Civ we wanted to make sure that the player could pick it up and play with it without feeling like they needed to read a huge manual or do research on what everything meant. So the notifications sort of replace some of the popups we used to have where anytime something important happens in the game you get a small icon to let you know that something’s going on. When you wanna know what that is you can go and look into it rather than being confronted with something immediately that you have to deal with. So it’s sort of speeding up flow and kind of letting people stay in the game a little bit more rather than being pulled out to some piece of UI.
RV:
And the way the UI is presented to you throughout the game, it’s more of an additive. Instead of having everything available at once, as it becomes available, that part of the UI will show up or say, “hey look at me” so…
MM:
Yeah over time the city screen will get more and more complicated as you get bigger population and more options are available to you. As you build new buildings you’ll see more things showing up in there.
RV:
Yeah it kind of grows while you’re learning.
ET:
Like with all good games, the UI wasn’t born overnight. Both the look and the usability went through countless iterations and revisions before a final design was decided. And while the UI has always been an iterative process for every development team I’ve worked with, I thought Firaxis’ flow might be even more so. Their studio is very iterative in every aspect of their design – so it made sense to me that something so large as a UI overhaul would have a unique process.
MM:
We’ve had a lot of back and forth, a lot of iterations on the screens that are in the game. With a lot of stuff, either Russell or myself will put something in initially and then it kinda bounces back and forth between the two of us for a long time where he’ll be adding in more details and more features to the components of the screen then I’ll go in and hook up the pieces of logic that populate everything. So we’ve bounced things back and forth quite a few times.
RV:
We’ve been able to eliminate a bottleneck where the artist has to use a tool and then – so the programmers and designers are always waiting for artist to make this screen, export it, and get it into the game. The process that Marc created now, everything is done in XML, so when John needs a screen, he makes it. When a programmer needs something, they make it. So everybody’s been able to make the screens and then I go in and pretty them up. I hafta say I’m doing much more coding than I thought I would ever do as an artist but it seems to work. As far as the iterations go, everyone’s able to make changes without any bottleneck and it’s been beautiful. I don’t think we even realize how beautiful it is because it’s just been so seamless. But I remember on my last project just there being a bottleneck there and I felt as if I couldn’t make everybody happy because couldn’t get to everyone’s screen quick enough, but this way takes care of that.
MM:
Yeah we built a whole new system from the ground up using XML and LUA and so we have one great advantage where we’re able to hotload those files as we change them. While the game is running we can modify the user interface and hotload those screens and see our changes immediately which has just been a huge, huge thing for us. We’ve been able to do so many more iterations because we don’t hafta wait on an export, we don’t have to wait on a compile. We just see our changes right away, so we’ve been able to really really polish up a lot of our interface.
ET:
Before I let Marc and Russell leave the recording studio (at the time of this recording, the UI was still definitely in flux, and they had quite a bit of work to do) I asked them how they wanted people to feel about the final user interface. So far, press and community had said quite a bit about the bits and pieces of UI they had seen (I’ll take a moment to tip my proverbial hat to you diehards out there that deciphered screenshots and video stills with amazing skill and speed.) With so much time and energy poured into creating a system that was a keystone for all of Civilization V, I couldn’t imagine they didn’t have hopes and dreams of some kind for how gamers would receive their work.
MM:
Yeah for me I would definitely want them to not notice it because it’s so functional. I would love for it to just work for everyone and them to have the data they need when they need it but to not be intimidated by it.
RV:
I want them to think like I thought when I played Warcraft 2. “This is just the best interface ever.” It just has the most beautiful icons that I love, and I can’t wait for people to see them. I think ten years from now I really believe people are gonna be like, “remember those icons from Civ V?” They all had a similar theme and there were thousands of them and I felt they all came from the same game. I also agree with Marc. I hope that the interface is so seamless that it’ll take you a while to like appreciate it. And if you do, you’ll love it hopefully.
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Podcast 7 : Battles and Gameplay Galore
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Réponse #7 le:
27 Août 2010 à 23:46 »
Episode 7 :
Batailles et Combats
Ed Beach ( Lead AI et Gameplay Programmer ), et Jon Shafer ( Lead Designer ), parlent avec Elizabeth d'un des aspects les plus importants du gameplay de Civilization : Les Batailles et Combats.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the seventh episode of the Civilization V podcast series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and today Ed Beach, Lead AI and Gameplay Programmer, and Jon Shafer, Lead Designer, shed some light on one of the most important aspects of Civilization gameplay: Battles and combat. As I’m sure you are well aware by now, combat in Civ V is different from any other game in the series: Units don’t automatically die if they lose a battle, there are ranged units, and only one unit can occupy a tile at a time. And that short list is only scratching the surface of what combat is in the game. Such a drastic change surely was not made without serious thought and planning and considerable inspiration.
Ed Beach:
Yeah that's a big one. The combat is probably going to be the element of Civilization V that stands out most to people in terms of how it's different from previous games. In previous games you would have large stacks of units on single tiles and you would send large stacks after other players' large stacks and cities. That's kind of a Civ staple in some ways but we're actually going a different direction with that. We're introducing something called “one unit per tile” where only one military unit can occupy a tile at one time. So what you'll see a lot more is units that have to work in concert with one another and front lines and that sort of thing. Just concepts that haven't been in Civilization before. Additionally there's a couple other big changes we're making. We're introducing ranged combat to the game. This wa s something that was in Civilization III but we're really expanding on it and in combination with one unit per tile it's really adding a lot more to the game so that's another thing we're really excited about and in order to accommodate the one unit per tile system we've also made it so that cities can defend themselves without a unit station there. So that makes them a little bit harder to take and also kind of swings things a little bit in the direction of defense where you're not gonna be completely screwed if somebody breaks through your front line.
Jon Shafer:
I think the other thing to add is combat is now non-lethal. So when you attack a unit, he can sit and take that attack and still be in place and ready to continue to defend that terrain in case someone else is gonna come after him. So what you wanna do is often times to break an enemy line use two or three units in conjunction with each other, sometimes setting up a ranged attack to soften them up ahead of time. So there's a lot of kind of positional strategy in trying to get your attacks setup just right and having the right combination of two or three units to go in to take a key hex.
ET:
Jon jumped in to a topic that is a big one for a lot of people. Combat is now not automatically the death of your unit. This not only significantly changes strategy, but also adds value to each unit. Since you can upgrade units as they gain experience and as you gain new technologies, a good player will find that they are still using their original warrior hundreds of turns in to the game. Albeit upgraded, but still the same unit. Keeping these units up to snuff takes more than skill in battle, however.
EB:
I think one thing that's very different with the new combat system is you have to look at each of the targets that you're going after and kind of really analyze the terrain around them. A city that's in the middle of an open plain where you can get to it from all six sides is a much easier nut to crack than one that's on the coast maybe with a mountain range blocking access to it from one direction. Since you really need to use those joint attacks where you have two or three units cooperating together out of a couple different hexes to take down a city it's gonna be really tough in those areas where the terrain is restricted. You may have to – especially as the game progresses and you start building up your navy – use your naval units, maybe some of your ranged units, and the ranges get longer and longer as the game goes on – along with the land units and that combination may be what you actually use to take down a city.
JS:
Yeah something that we wanted to make sure of is that naval units were more significant in this game. So something that we've done is all of the naval units are now ranged and they can actually hit on land as well. So they can bombard cities directly they can bombard units on the land directly. So if you have a large navy and the enemy doesn't, you have a pretty big advantage because you can roll up with your fleet and blow stuff up and he's not gonna be able to do much about it. In terms of overall philosophy, something that we wanted to do with Civ V and combat was in a lot of ways to reward action over inaction. So you'll see there are some defensive bonuses and certainly stationing units in terrain and setting things up appropriately is important but the commander who can put all the elements in his favor and build up an advantage on one side in terms of what units are stationed where or if you have an advantage in ranged units and can soften up the front line. It's much better to go into a war with an active strategy whether on offense or defense rather than just set units in fixed locations and then rely on them being strong enough to hold out forever. And that was something that you could do a lot of times with stacks because if you had a big enough stack with enough defensive modifiers then the enemy could just never break through it. You were almost, you know, impenetrable.
ET:
Without stacks, another pressing question for Civ players is “what about my cities?!” Now, you can only have one unit defending each city, which at face value makes them sound weak and ineffective. However, combat is not always offensive – cities now can defend themselves, and you can build up defenses that will bolster their attacks and make them able to ward off even the heaviest of sieges – if you’re good enough, that is.
JS:
As we mentioned, the cities can now defend themselves. So, like units, they have hit points. They actually have more than units because we didn't want them to fall too quickly. And they can be attacked both by ranged units as well as melee units like swordsmen or riflemen or whatever. So they're able to take some amount of abuse and if you support your city you can actually hold off against an offensive. In terms of the city itself, it actually has a ranged attack as well so it can shoot at incoming enemies and damage them or destroy them like another unit can so they can be pretty dangerous in that manner. You have to make sure you have enough units to break through and also to lay siege to the city while it's shooting at you. In terms of offense, you have to counter those advantages. You generally want ranged units that can hit it from a distance and do damage and wear it down so that your melee units when they actually go and attack the city directly don't take as much damage. If you have, let's say, just bunches and bunches of swordsmen, you might be able to take a city but you might suffer casualties or be seriously weakened by that. Whereas if you have a more mixed force with ranged units – especially siege units like catapults – you can knock the city down and take fewer losses that way.
EB:
I think the last thing to add is that over time, if you're worried about defending your cities, you can upgrade them with a bunch of different buildings that can be put in the city starting with walls. Later you can add castles and military bases and so forth to continue to upgrade them and that's gonna make them harder to take, it's gonna make their defensive at tack back out of the city stronger. So even if you know that a certain city is on the border of your empire and very likely to come under attack you can plan ahead for that and go ahead and buff up its defenses so that it's not as vulnerable as it might be just sitting out there unprotected.
ET:
It’s one thing to talk about these combat changes and to explain how everything works – but it’s another entirely to wrap your head around what everything Jon and Ed are saying. Since many old Civ tactics are now thrown out the window, I let the experts give a bit of insight into how new players can jump into combat in Civilization V with some good strategies under their belt.
EB:
I think the first thing to keep in mind is that you're gonna want to use multiple units in conjunction like we were mentioning and a key part of that is that there's now a flank bonus that is given to an offensive player when he has additional units that are adjacent to the defender and then he makes an attack with one of those units. It actually also applies in defense if the person attacking you is surrounded by a bunch of your defending units you also get the same bonus. So, in general, thinking about the positional game of where your units are, are any of them vulnerable to being flanked on two or three sides. In all those types of situations, your units are not gonna perform as well and you're not gonna be as effective but if you can get those bonuses working for you then you're gonna have a much easier time.
JS:
As an extension of that we mentioned that ranged units are a significant addition. They're actually fairly weak in melee combat though. So if somebody can get a melee unit into range to attack them, especially fast units like knights or horsemen or whatever, then they're very vulnerable to that. So you want to make sure that your ranged units are protected and they're not in the direct line of fire. Something that we have in Civ V is a form of zone of control. Players who've played maybe earlier versions of Civ or other strategic games that have that element will be familiar with that. But what that means in our game is if you move a unit from one tile adjacent to an enemy to another tile adjacent to that same enemy it uses up your turn, no matter how many movement points you have. Normally most units in our game have at least two movement points so you're losing some that way if that's your first move. It really restricts your flexibility so you want to deal with units on the front and you can't just slip through somebody's lines and get into their weak rear where they have ranged units or whatever.
ET:
Now it’s time to switch gears. We’re still talking about combat, mind you, but in an entirely different light, because Civilization V is going to have a multiplayer component like none you’ve ever experienced in the past. For those of you who are now on the edge of their seats, I don’t want to get your hopes up – we’re not talking about the nitty gritty of multiplayer quite yet – however, Ed and Jon do have tips on how to approach combat when facing off against other Civ players.
JS:
I think the most important thing is to keep in mind the tactics are going to be very important. You can't just stroll up with a big mass of units and expect to win against another human opponent especially. They'll know how to defend against that and they'll be ready to beat that so you have to make sure you're paying attention to what's going on on the map station your units appropriately. I also think scouting is gonna be a big deal because instead of having a big stack that just appears out of nowhere, you're gonna be able to see a large wave of units coming in advance. Especially against a human player you wanna be prepared for that. So having units stationed at different parts of the map near you in order to spot that big incoming wave will be really important. You're not gonna be able to hide your huge invasion force. It's gonna be all spread out and waiting for everybody to see it. And something else I mentioned is that I think boats will also be significant. They are ranged units so they're fairly powerful and if you can gain an advantage there or build up a fleet when somebody isn't expecting it you could have a large advantage that somebody is prepared for. So I think using the naval game will also be significant in multiplayer.
EB:
Terrain certainly plays a role. Defending in any kind of rough or restricted terrain like hills or forest or jungle or even behind a river so if the attacker is coming across a river that's gonna provide a defensive bonus. Units out in the open are actually more vulnerable to attack.
JS:
Yeah that's something new which is they are weaker – you know they get a penalty for being on flat land so you really wanna be careful where you put your units.
EB:
And then there's some units that don't get to take advantage of the defensive bonuses like mounted units and so forth – those fast moving units. They're certainly very useful in combat, especially to get around an enemy's rear but you have to be very careful to protect them.
JS:
Because ranged units are so important, something to keep an eye out for are hills. Hills allow your ranged units, if stationed on them, to shoot over other obstacles. Normally if you have a very dense forest your ranged units aren't going to be able to shoot as far as they normally can. However if they're on a hill they can actually restore their range so identifying hills and getting your ranged units on top of them will be something that's pretty important to winning.
Pete:
So take the high ground.
JS:
Yes.
EB:
And if you can't put archers or other ranged units on them at least put scouts because then you'll at least know that the enemy is on its way.
Pete:
So in your multiplayer game experiences, what's been your reaction to see this giant mass of units coming towards you? What do you do at that point?
JS:
Um, you quit?
Pete:
You rage quit. You heard it here folks!
ET:
In case you didn’t recognize him, that’s Pete Murray, Marketing Associate at Firaxis. He’s always got the best one-liners during our podcasts.
ET:
I started out this podcast by saying that I’d only scratched the surface of combat. Even now, we still haven’t gone through everything that combat holds in Civilization V – but the nuances within the game will vary depending on player and play style – I know that I speak for the entire team when I say that we are eagerly awaiting launch day when we can read everyone’s strategies and exclaim “I can’t believe I never thought of that!”
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Podcast 8 : In-Game AI
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Réponse #8 le:
08 Sep 2010 à 10:28 »
Episode 8 :
L'I.A. de Civilization V.
Elizabeth Tobey reçois Scott Lewis (Gameplay Programmer), Ed Beach (Lead Gameplay Programmer), et Brian Wade (Lead Programmer), pour nous parler de l'I.A. de Civilization V.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the eighth episode of the Civilization V podcast series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and today I’m talking with Scott Lewis, Gameplay Programmer, Ed Beach, Lead Gameplay Programmer, and Brian Wade, Lead Programmer, about the AI in Civilization V – or, as I like to say, explain why Gandhi can be so evil when all you want is for him to accept your research agreement and give you some iron. To start, Ed gives a broad overview of how the team approached each civilization’s personality and play style.
Ed Beach:
Let me first start by explaining what we have that makes each Civilization play a little bit uniquely. We have what we call our flavor system. And so before any game starts up we have defined for every Civilization whether they're particularly interested in offensive military action or defensive military action. Whether they like to pursue things maybe with fast mounted units or maybe they like to build naval units and explore around the seas. So a good example of a nation that we would give a high flavor for navies would be England just because they built their empire that way and so we want to reflect that in the game. We also have flavors that define whether they like to keep their people happy, whether they like to investigate science, a lot of economic sides to the game as well are all defined with our flavor system. So for each of the different leaders and civilizations in the game we have those settings then at the beginning of the game we go and tweak them all a little bit so that nobody plays exactly the same in two games and some games you might have France particularly interested in building navies or in another game you might have a civilization that's normally interested in keeping their people happy a little bit less inclined to that and they may be a little bit more militaristic. So once we have that all established then we start to use that to drive the AI's behavior in the different games so you'll have situations where that controls both how they expand, whether they want to build more cities, whether they want to expand by conquest, it will also drive what kind of units and buildings they put into their city and also just how they relate to the players. Are they gonna take a friendly route because they're gonna go for a cultural victory this time? Or are they really trying to dominate the world militarily and they're not actually very good neighbors for you to have right on your border.
Brian Wade:
Yeah but even with the bias – even with the variation, Napoleon will generally be a very aggressive neighbor.
Scott Lewis:
Yeah it's not good to have Montezuma on your border either.
BW:
No, you probably ought to think about defenses in any case.
EB:
Yeah so you'll see the basic tendencies of them once you've played the game enough times and have a rough idea what to expect but they're not gonna play it the same way every time. And then also we'll look at the situation on the map where they start. If you have a civilization that likes to build up their navy but they happen to start inland, you know, eventually they'll get to the coast and start working on their navy but they'll adjust to that situation and realize that “hey if there are a whole bunch of horses right near where I'm starting maybe I wanna go ahead and build a mounted army and start out my game that way.”
ET:
Beyond the complexities of each civilization’s individual personality and gameplay style, there is another level to AI in Civilization V: Difficulty levels. When you get to the top tier of difficult, the AI can be brutal – I know that I’m not the only one who has accused the computer of cheating when on an expert level. Ed explains what the AI’s “thought process” is like on different difficulty levels, and how it gets “smarter” as you advance to more challenging settings.
EB:
I think one thing the AI is going to do is – we have it set up so when the AI is trying to make a decision – so it's trying to decide what to build in the city, trying to decide what technology to pursue next – we go ahead and we look at all the possibilities based on where they are in the tech tree right now and we rank them according to which ones we think are the best choice for a strong Civ player at that given point in time. Now what happens is when you're playing on the higher difficulty levels we almost always pick one of those top choices just because we want that civilization to be as competitive as possible with you. When you're at a lower difficulty, one of the things that we do is we start opening that up to some of those other lower ranking choices and we pick from those choices as well. We're also looking at kind of a different depth of analysis in terms of the military and tactical game when you go and you have a higher difficulty setting. So rather than just looking in the immediate area of a city when you're playing on the higher difficulty levels the AI is gonna be thinking a little bit deeper, looking further across the map and using that to kind of come up with decisions like, “oh wow I'm actually 10 tiles away. Maybe I have 3 or 4 units that can reinforce the situation.” I'll pull those in and that will strengthen my military right in the nick of time here.
ET:
So here’s the million dollar question – “what does this mean for me? How is it going to change my gameplay?” Moreover, how is it going to change the AI’s gameplay from past iterations of Civ?
EB:
I think one thing we wanna do with Civ – not only just for the AI but also for the player – is we wanna set it up so that playing each of the Civs is a unique experience. So if you look at it, in other games we've had bonuses that allow you to do things a little bit faster as each of the different civilizations that were part of their leader traits. And then we've also had unique units, unique buildings, that kind of thing. We still have the unique units and the unique buildings but one thing that we added for each of the Civs is what we're calling its unique trait. And so each of the Civilizations play with one special bonus basically that they have – and most of the special bonuses help them throughout the game, both in the early game all the way through to the late. I don't know if you guys wanna talk about any particular Civs you have a fun time playing with their bonus.
BW:
Well the Germans have a pretty good aggressive bonus and they can get the barbarians to help fill out their military forces. You can get a large barbarian horde and bring it into play quickly.
EB:
And so one thing we wanna do is actually set it up so that the AI is aware of these bonuses and will take advantage of them. So the Germans for instance – Brian brought them up – their bonus is when they encounter barbarians they take out the barbarian camp. They can convert the barbarian camp guard into a German unit. But we have them very aggressive at scouting so that they will find all the barbarian camps early in the game so that will hopefully help the AI capitalize on their bonus. There are other good examples of that. For instance, India likes to build very large, populated cities. They don't need as many cities as the other civilizations, they just like to pack a lot of people into them and get lots of citizens to work those tiles. And the AI's aware of that and so with India it's gonna be less likely to build settles but it will be very likely to build buildings that help provide food and growth to those cities.
SL:
My favorite ability is that when the Aztecs defeat a unit they get culture which is just sort of really weird and strange but kind of great because most of the time to get culture you have to build temples and churches and what not. And it's kind of weird, so I like it.
ET:
This entire podcast, I’ve talked about AI as if it is this amorphous mass – a single “thing” of sorts that makes the computer players of Civilization V do what they do. That is, of course, a massive oversimplification of what is actually going on behind the scenes. There are AI subsystems that work together to make all of these choices and create a cohesive opponent that feels like a real player.
EB:
One of the things we wanted to make sure of with the AI for Civ V is that it looked at the game from all of the different perspectives that a strong player of the game looks at the situations that you're faced with. And so there are a lot of different levels that we think the AI needs to operate on to be effective in playing the game. So there's some times where you're just looking at the overall situation and you're trying to figure out, “how am I gonna win?” Am I gonna pursue a cultural victory or a conquest victory or a spaceship victory? So we need an AI that's thinking at that level. We also need to think about your economy. Do I need more cities? Do I have enough cities? In the cities that I have, do I need to boost the buildings that I have to increase my science production? Or maybe I'm running low on happiness and my people are going to be limited by that. So we need like an economic AI. We also need AI thought in terms of how to get units to a destination. Maybe we wanna found a new city. Maybe we wanna bring a military force of 5 or 6 units somewhere to either defend against an enemy attack or launch an attack of our own. And then once those enemy units get there, how do they need to be deployed for battle? Who's in the front line? Who's in the back line? Do we try to set up flank attacks? Do we just sit back and let our ranged units whittle down the enemy? So all those different decision types are things that we want the AI concerned with and we decided the best way to structure the AI software for this project was to go ahead and create a subsystem at each of those levels. So we have a grand strategy subsystem that tries to figure out how you're gonna win the game. We have an economic subsystem that acts as kind of your economic advisor and figures out oh I need more cities or I don't or I need more science or I don't. There's a military subsystem that worries about what types of units I need to produce. Whether I have enough defenses or whether I need to go and increase my defense budget and get more units built. And then there's also an operational AI that delivers units to a particular target. And once they get there there's a tactical AI. So we have all these different levels. There's also a diplomatic AI subsystem, there's AI subsystems that manage city production. And we've set it up so that those different subsystems know how to communicate with each other. If they have a special request that needs to go in so that – because I need to prepare for war I need the military subsystem to go and start producing a bunch of units, maybe fast moving units, maybe units with bombard capability, whatever. Those types of requests can get passed around between the subsystems so that they're coordinated and kind of are all operating on the same page.
ET:
Like most core aspects of Civilization, the fifth iteration in the series has taken AI to a new height. The team is striving to achieve the most dynamic and distinctive opponents possible, and a challenging and unpredictable yet believable experience for players across all difficulties – from brand new to veteran player. And while knowing more about the technology that goes into making Gandhi such a sly opponent won’t help you get him to accept your research agreement, or give you that iron you so desperately need, at least now you know you have Ed, Scott, and Brian to thank for making him who he is.
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Podcast 9 : What Are City-States?
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Réponse #9 le:
17 Sep 2010 à 09:30 »
Episode 9 :
Que sont les cités-États ?
Elizabeth Tobey reçoit Pete Murray (Marketing Associate) et, Jon Shafer (Lead Designer) pour nous parler des cités-Etats.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the ninth episode of the Civilization V podcast series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and today Pete Murray, Marketing Associate, and Jon Shafer, Lead Designer, join me to talk about a brand new element of Civilization V: City States.
PM:
City-states are NPC civilizations that are never gonna get bigger than a single city, they're not out to win the game. And they're there to give the major civilizations a chance to develop allies who are not gonna be competitors in trying to win. They're there so you can develop some, you know, peaceful political interactions to gain some advantages for your civilization. But they're there to make things happen between the major civs. They really cause a lot of things to happen in the game. So you can become friends with a city-state, you can get some advantages for that, but you have to decide, “am I gonna protect these if somebody else comes to take them over?” They can really make wars break out on this basis. If you're friends with somebody and your neighbor invades them and you go to liberate that city-state, you know, you're gonna run into conflict with a major civilization so it's exciting when you have these political interactions arise out of something as simple as a minor civilization in the game itself.
ET:
Single cities marooned in a sea of growing, power-hungry civilizations don’t appear, at face value, to be much of a challenge. If they aren’t out to win the game, after all, they should be easy to ignore or conquer without much thought. So what makes City States so crucial to ultimate success? And why should anyone care whether they conquer instead of placating and protecting them?
PM:
You can conquer a city-state and spare yourself having to build a settler but that'll have ramifications for your interaction with the other city-states in the game. They'll be more nervous about interacting with you if they see you've sacked one of their friends. You can liberate a city-state and, in which case, they're gonna love you very very much for a long time. But becoming friends with a city-state is good in the sense that it can give you advantages where you may not have a great deal of your own support. Say it's hard for you to find sources of food to feed your cities. A maritime city-state may give you a bonus to your food. A militaristic city-state may grant you military units from time to time if you're finding you're having difficulty with production. So if you're doing well in an aspect that can really, you know, put you into overdrive on that.
ET:
For those of you who are still thinking “that doesn’t sound like much of an obstacle for my master plans” let me tell you that City States are elusive and sneaky. I speak from personal experience when I say this – they are definitely able to mess with your entire strategy.
JS:
There are a few different things that make city-states really interesting and unique in the game. First off, they can actually provide you bonuses that you can't get in other ways. So for example, if you're able to befriend them, they will gift you they're strategic and luxury resources. So that's something that you could get by conquering them but there are ramifications for fighting wars. Other players become more wary of you. If another major power is protecting that city-state then that will bring a new conflict. But if you're able to become allies with that city-state then they will give you things. Additionally they're also a source of competition both in terms of the military game and also the overall diplomatic game. There's only one player that can receive the resources from a particular city-state and you can only have one ally of a city-state at a time, so there's gonna be competition for that role. If two players are competing over one city-state only one of them will be the ally of that city-state. Obviously there's also the war angle. If somebody tries to conquer a city-state that you're friends with or you try to conquer a city-state somebody else is friends with that will have diplomatic repercussions and the major power might come up and tell you, “hey we don't like what you're doing,” or they might just outright go to war and try to take the city back and liberate them. So there's a number of different angles that city-states provide that are unique and really interesting we think.
ET:
As I said before – City States are not something to dismiss without careful consideration. Let me explain a little bit about what City States have done to me over the past few months: They have told me to do things (like wage war on Montezuma or another City State, like Geneva) and then attacked me based on the outcome of me trying to do them a favor. Agreeing to help them all won’t help you, either – too much aggression or deception, and they all won’t trust you. Even choosing to attack the wrong people will end up causing a massive war. Not keeping a City State happy can cause you to lose their friendship and any bonuses and perks they are giving you will disappear, possibly throwing your civilization into upheaval, leaving you weak and exposed to attack. And, on occasion, City States will take over other civilization’s cities while defending themselves – and if you aren’t careful, those cities could be your own.
JS:
They definitely can suck you into a conflict. This is one of the things that we've found is really interesting about this system and it's something that Dennis has told me about in some of his games in particular where a city-state that he was trying to be friends with but he wasn't investing a lot in. Suddenly it was attacked by another player and that really changed the nature of his game. He's normally a very peaceful player and he doesn't like going to war aggressively. But suddenly he had a very good reason to try and fight this other player. And he did, and he enjoyed it, and he thought it was really interesting. And that's something that you wouldn't have seen in previous Civ games because you very rarely had any reason to protect another player. It was all about killing them or just finding ways to defeat them. So if they were losing then that was a good thing for you, this is something that's new. They can also, depending on their personality, they can get involved with players in other ways. So one example is that particularly hostile or militaristic city-states can actually request that you go and kill another neighboring city-state. So by doing that you gain a lot of friendship with the city-state that made that request but obviously that's an act of war so everybody else is gonna not like that as much, especially the city-state you went after and any players that are protecting that city-state. So there's a number of different interactions that are there can bring about interesting situations.
PM:
Maybe the coolest part is that these interactions arise out of situations specific to the game they're in. There's nothing contrived about this. There's nothing that happens in the game where we say when we're making the game, you know, “pre-load this staged scene involving these city-states.” I mean these requests that the city-states make, these resources that they can provide you really do arise out of the very specific layout of the continent, their, you know, relationship to their neighbors who settled near them. And so it emerges out of the game play and you get this depth, this unexpected depth and complexity just out of game play in the course of Civ V and that's one of the things that feels the coolest about the city-states.
ET:
Last episode, I think you got the picture that Gandhi and I aren’t always on the best of terms. Second to him, I think City States are my main nemeses in Civilization V. When I started playing, I thought that they were great – pockets of awesomesness in a game full of deceipt and double crossers. But don’t be fooled – City States are just as wily as full-fledged civilizations. They’ll burn you if you aren’t careful – and quite possibly, even if you are.
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Podcast 10 : Social Policies in Civilization V
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Réponse #10 le:
18 Sep 2010 à 11:19 »
Episode 10 :
Les doctrines sociales
Elizabeth Tobey reçoit Jon Shafer (Lead Designer) pour nous parler des doctrines sociales.
Elizabeth Tobey:
In the tenth episode of the Civilization V podcast series, Jon Shafer, Lead Designer, talks with me about the social policy system – a new feature for the series. And while social policies may sound strange and different, for veteran Civ players, they will probably become very clear and intuitive by the end of my chat.
Jon Shafer:
The social policy system is one of the new things that we're doing with Civilization V. It kind of fills the role of the governments and the cultural system in a way of the past games. So we like the civics system from Civ IV but there were a few things that we wanted to change with it and the policies kind of grew out of that in a way, and also there is some inspiration from other games like Company of Heroes and World of Warcraft. They have systems where you build up points as the game goes on and you can buy different things. So that's kind of the general theme behind the policies tree. It's also encompassing the religion element for Civilization V. So we don't have specific religions in Civ V anymore but we do have part of the policies tree which is dedicated to that part of the game.
ET:
Many people have really loved various governmental, religious, and cultural systems in past Civ games. Social policies aren’t about subtracting, really, but about restructuring and creating something new, and streamlined, that worked with the flow and gameplay of Civilization V.
JS:
Well the biggest thing is we wanted there to be a sense of forward momentum with the tree. There's always something new that you can get and it's always gonna be a good thing. One of the elements of the Civ IV civic system was a lot of times you would unlock a new civic that wasn't gonna be very useful for your style of play. A lot of times we'd actually see people that would just always switch civics whether or not it mattered or if it was a good thing for them or they would never switch civics because they didn't quite understand what was going on. So the main theme for the policies is we always wanted there to be something good that you get. So it's always a choice of getting something new instead of having to backtrack and go over and “is this combination gonna be better than this combination” - you always want to just get new things. So that's the main reason why we changed the structure. In terms of simplification, it's actually – there's quite a few more policies in Civ V than there were civics in Civ IV so there's actually more depth there in a manner of speaking.
ET:
And that is definitely true – there are a lot of policies to choose from. All told, there are 8 different policies to choose from – some that work well together, and others that absolutely do not – and as someone who has been trying to find the best combination for my personal strategy, I can tell you there is a lot to work with, and the impact of building on certain policies definitely can be felt as the game progresses.
JS:
We wanted there to be the choice of what, which large branches to go down and which individual policies you wanted to adopt. But um, there's still – there's a lot going on in there. It's not simplified.
ET:
For me, one thing that ties closely to social policies is a civilization’s happiness. While social policies do a lot more than help keep people happy, they can be a very important component to the overall health of your empire and thusly, the strength and growth potential of your cities. Happiness is a completely retooled concept, as well, and another element of the game that looks deceptively simple at face value, but is quite the challenge to master.
JS:
Yeah that's one of the changes that we've made with the game. Happiness is now something that is empire based, it's not city based anymore. The thinking behind that, as we've talked about, is the fact that we wanted to give players different options for how they develop their civilization. In previous games there was kind of a best path to kind of travel down. So you wanted a civilization that had a certain number of cities at any point. But in Civilization V, happiness being a global limiter means that you can have a civilization with a few really big cities or a lot of small cities or anywhere in between, so it gives a lot of flexibility for the players.
JS:
Happiness is meant to represent the stability of your civilization as a whole. How much your people like you, how much they dislike you. And it's an abstraction to contain a lot of different things. So, again, instead of specific cities it kind of measures your civilization as a whole. The main thinking behind that was allowing players to play different ways but there's a number of things that feed into that. Like previous Civilization games, the size of your cities is a pretty important part of that. There's also a factor for capturing cities. So if you capture a lot of cities you're going to have to deal with that more. And, you know, we're still working on calibrating the numbers and the balance on things so it can be a little challenging or a little easy at times even at some points. So we're still working on that, trying to get that tuned up correctly. In terms of gaining happiness there's a few different ways that you can actually acquire it. The easiest and most obvious is through the acquisition of luxury resources and this is usually what you'll do early on in the game especially. You'll have your capital city, which will be founded, and nearby you'll have probably some luxury resources which you can use to help to either improve the growth of that city or start expanding into other cities. There's also a number of buildings that will improve your happiness like the coliseum, and later in the game there's things like the stadium. Social policies play into that. There's quite a few that improve your happiness in different ways. So there's some that might increase your happiness for every city that has a garrison, that's kind of more of a militaristic route. Or there's some that might increase the amount you get from each luxury resource that you already have, and that's more of a commercial aspect to it. In general trading is going to be a big part of this. You want to trade with other major civilizations that have excess luxury resources because only one copy helps you. It's kind of like Civilization III where if you have, let's say, three different sources of silk. You can use one of them and the other two are good only for trading away so we really want to encourage that. And also by befriending city-states you can get their resources which is useful. So that's the part where I get cut off. The system is definitely on its way, and something that we're missing right now is a lot of that trading aspect which we're going to be working on here soon. So you don't – you'll see occasional trades but you don't see a lot, which is something we wanna kind of push a little bit more.
ET:
So you're saying that the reason why my civ hates me isn't completely my fault?
JS:
Not completely, no. That one is – it's gonna be really tricky to balance that one just because it does, you know, it is meant to cover so many different situations, you know. If you have 50 cities or if you have two enormous cities, you know, there's a lot of different inputs into that. If you have a lot of cities you'll have more resources but it's harder to build things. If you only have two cities then it's gonna be hard to get resources but it's not gonna be too hard to get the building. So getting all those numbers right has been a challenge and we're trying to bring them back in line. You can only do that by playing the game a lot and being like, “oh my god what's wrong here?” I change it like every few days trying to get it right.
ET:
Jon had one last question to answer concerning happiness before I’d let him go: How do I make my city awesome?
JS:
Um, ok there's a few things there. Like in previous games we have the concept of food producing new citizens so like the other games, the more food the better. So that causes your cities to grow. And then that of course works against the happiness limit. As the game goes on you definitely wanna be looking for new sources of happiness. If you're into expansion then looking for new luxury resource is a good way of doing that. And also if you're not then there's the trade component or there's some other directions you can go there. In terms of border growth, there's something new that we've added to the game that some people have noticed, and that's the fact that the borders don't grow in rings anymore, they grow one tile at a time. And that does a couple things. It paces the game a little bit better. Instead of having the borders just expand really big early on and then you have all you need for a long long time. When it's one by one, every time you get a new tile that's something that's significant and it's always something you can use because if there's let's say another resource nearby that you want to claim, then grabbing that and getting that in your city's range of being able to be worked is pretty important. Additionally it also makes the borders look more interesting. You have something that looks more like the real world as opposed to just large blobs all over the map. So that was something that we wanted to tack on a couple different ways. So those are a few things that will be useful in terms of growing and expanding and improving one's civilization.
ET:
If you still have questions about social policies and happiness in Civilization V, never fear. We’ve taken a closer look at both issues – and gone through each policy tree in depth – on the Civilization V community site, so for more details, be sure to visit us at
www.civilization5.com
, and thanks for listening.
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Podcast 11 : The Civilopedia and Tech Tree
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Réponse #11 le:
18 Sep 2010 à 11:26 »
Episode 11 :
La Civilopédia et l'arbre technologique
Elizabeth Tobey reçoit Jon Shafer (Lead Designer) et Brian Wade (Lead Programmer) pour nous parler de la Civilopédia et de l'arbre technologique.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the eleventh episode of the Civilization V podcast series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and today I’m talking with Jon Shafer and Brian Wade at Firaxis to take a closer look at Civ V’s Civlopedia and Tech tree - two strategic tools you’ll need to have a successful campaign. As always, we start big – explaining what the Tech Tree and Civlopedia are, why they are important, and, of course, what Civilization V wanted to do with them.
Jon Shafer:
My name is Jon Shafer, I'm the lead designer for Civ V. The tech tree, in many ways, is the backbone for every Civilization game. It covers the span of history and includes basic things like mining and writing from the very beginnings of history and goes forward into all parts of what we know, into the near future. So it serves as a place for positioning units and buildings and all sorts of other things that are objects in the game that you can manipulate or powers or whatever else, and it serves as a way to pace the game. Early on you don't have future tech so you can't do certain things that future tech lets you do. So it's necessary to progress through the technology tree in order to gain new things.
Brian Wade:
Hi, I'm Brian Wade, lead programmer. Well Civilopedia is really the best source of documentation for the game. It pretty much has the up to date rules and values of everything because it's pulling the data straight from the same places that the game itself is pulling it. So if it says that a unit is strength 75, well it's strength 75. Manuals - printed manuals and such – get out of date very quickly with changes and the Civilopedia doesn't. It also has lots of tidbits – and have to give a shout outs to Paul and Michelle for writing lots of background history on all the various things that ended up in there.
ET:
I know I’m not alone when I say the Tech Tree has been a veritable lifesaver in many a Civ game. Particularly when playing on a higher difficulty level, focusing how you research technology can be the most crucial element for successfully completing your victory conditions. Over the years, the Tech Tree has grown, and morphed, and for Civilization V the Tech Tree again has changed to fit the goals of the development team and work in harmony with gameplay.
JS:
The main thing with the tech tree that we wanted to do was allow players to look at it and immediately have some idea of where they were going and what they were doing. This is something that was definitely a challenge in Civ IV. Even I had trouble figuring out how to get from one place to another and a lot of that was due to just how things were laid out and how they were connected together. So one of our goals early on was to try and make sure you could open it up and plot out your course in your head without relying on the computer to pick things for you. Something else that we wanted to do was to make it so not only could you see what you were doing but also have different, fairly obvious, paths through the game. So in terms of the tech tree that we have in Civ V, the top branch is kind of the naval branch of the game. The bottom branch is kind of the military branch of the game. And there's some economic ones in the middle. It's not that clear cut but that's an example of how we tried to lay it out such that you have an idea of where you're going and you can see it as well.
ET:
As with most important elements of a game, the Tech Tree was created over time and endured many changes as it went from a concept in the devs’ minds to a final, working element of the game. And while some may think that charting technologies is a relatively simple task, considering everything that goes in to making a game, building and finalizing the Tech Tree was a labor of love and iteration.
JS:
The big thing with the tech tree is that it just changes a lot over time. The design of it has evolved quite a bit from where we started and this is actually something that's kind of different compared to Civ IV where Soren had a fairly good idea of what he wanted from the tech tree – at least how things were laid out and how they were connected – and then mainly moved items around within them whereas the tech tree for Civ V actually changed a number of times. One of the things that actually we did was it used to be thinner so there were fewer techs in a single column but I redesigned the tech tree and we had to redo the interface for it to allow everything to fit which did not make a couple people too happy, including Brian here who had to hook it up. But it was for the best, he will agree.
BW:
Yeah, you have more choices at any given moment which was an important change from previous.
JS:
Yeah, and the tech tree is definitely very challenging because you do have a lot of different things that are almost fighting one another. You want to – obviously we talked earlier about having it pace the game so you can't have techs that unlock things too early. So you can't have techs that give let's say tanks in the modern age. Of course it wouldn't make sense but also, as an example, you want to have certain things appear before others from a gameplay sense. As I alluded to as well, you need to have it work from a historical perspective. You can't have tanks in the medieval era, that just doesn't work. So even if the game, let's say, would be better gameplay-wise because you had tanks in the medieval era, you couldn't do that. So you have those two that are in some ways very much fighting with one another so you have that to consider in addition to just getting everything on there. “What belongs in there if we have this? Does that make sense? Are we missing anything?” So a lot of different things to consider.
ET:
Now – down to strategy. Looking at the Tech Tree, and knowing Civ’s technologies, is important – but you aren’t going to win every time unless you have a solid strategy and tips and tricks at your disposal to exploit every bonus you can.
JS:
The idea of the different branches having different themes definitely plays out there. At the very end of the tech tree you have the lower branch – kind of the military branch – and it leads to some of the more advanced military technologies. The biggest example of that is advanced ballistics which provides the nuclear missile which is fairly important for military. On the top part of the tech tree there's the more cultural and economic stuff that leads you to the diplo and cultural victories and the space race is kind of in the middle there in between things like rocketry which gives you certain units but also lets you build certain spaceship parts. So kind of all mixed together there at the end. So having an idea of what victory you're going for is pretty important so you can decide which path you're following to win the game. So that's something definitely to keep an eye on. In terms of other things, just mainly targeting what your needs are at that moment. So if you're, let's say, running low on gold you want to go for currency in the early game so you can build markets. If you're running low on happiness you go for whatever will address your needs at that time. If you're going military there are certain techs that will help you there of course. So just having an idea of what you need at that time and what to go for to resolve that.
ET:
Switching gears, we now turned our focus to the Civilopedia – which is just as big as any past Civilopedia. In fact, the Civilopedia is now so big, one of the things Jon wanted to concentrate on was how to make all the information within it accessible to the gaming community. It’s fun to lose yourself in all of the articles, but if you need to find something quickly and get back to conquering the world, then the Civilopedia, with its plethora of information, had to be straightforward and easy to use in order to be successful.
JS:
There's a couple things that I really wanted from the Civilopedia in this version of the game. The first was to make it fairly readable I guess. The Civilopedia does have a lot of information on it so trying to make sure that you can get to the important parts and things that will help you learn what's going on is pretty important. One example of that is just how we laid out the text. On the units page, for example, we tried to have what this unit is – very basic information – very prominently positioned so it's easy to identify those sorts of things. What I really wanted to have was a search because it's just really useful. You pop in, you're like, “what's the warrior do?” You just punch in “warrior” and it takes you to the warrior page and you can quit out of it easily. So we wanted to make sure that that was something we had.
BW:
There's a lot of historical pieces in there. Admittedly, I wouldn't use the Civilopedia as an encyclopedia and use it to write reports for college or anything but Paul, who is the main writer for that, usually tried to come up with more entertaining pieces of history around characters and countries and little-known facts besides the stuff that everyone would normally associate with them. And it was more to give a little more light hearted view of some of history.
ET:
That concludes the eleventh episode of the Civilization V podcast series. Thank you for listening – we’ll be back soon with the twelfth episode to detail the helpful people you might interact with over the course of a game.
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Podcast 12 : People You’ll Meet
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Réponse #12 le:
18 Sep 2010 à 11:38 »
Episode 12 :
Les personnages qui nous aiderons...
Elizabeth Tobey reçoit Scott Lewis (Gameplay Programmer) et Jon Shafer (Lead Designer) pour nous parler des personnages à même de nous aider à conquérir le monde.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the twelfth episode of the Civilization V Podcast Series. I’m Elizabeth Tobey, and today I talk with Scott Lewis and Jon Shafer about people you’ll meet over the course of the game and who will, potentially, be able to help you conquer the world. I start with perhaps the most important people to help you on your quest – your advisors. Advisors have appeared in Civ games throughout the years in varying capacities, and for the fifth iteration of the series, the team had a very clear picture of what they should do.
Scott Lewis:
My name is Scott Lewis and I guess my title is gameplay programmer and sort of designer person and I made a lot of the design advisors. John really had a clear vision at the beginning of the game to have these advisors direct the player through the game and to help them play through the game and there’s 4 different advisors sort of directing you through the 4 different directory types. There’s a military advisor, economic advisor, foreign advisor, and science advisor. What we really wanted is somebody that was on the player’s side that’s sort of helping them out and giving them good advice. And they play sort of two roles in the game. One is to sort of introduce the player into the game and be like, “hey this is what’s going on. This is what this means, this is what that means.” We also have - when you build a unit or choose an attack – will say, “this is what this advisor wants.” It’s not just saying, “this is what’s best for the game” you say, “this is what’s best for you militarily,” or, “this is what’s best for your economy,” or, “this is best for diplomacy.” And also we have what I call the advisor council screen where the advisors will sort of look at what’s going on and give you feedback on what they think about the situation. I really wanted the player to feel like they had friends in the game – people that were on their side. A lot of times in these type of games you feel kind of isolated where it’s like you have a whole bunch of people trying to kill you and who’s on your side helping you out? And I saw it as the advisors.
ET:
Advisors are not all the same – depending on how you play the game, and more importantly, who you play as, their wisdom will be different. And they have insights that go far beyond the obvious – they are not mere tutorials and do more than hold your hand – they know the secrets of each Civ that will be useful for your ultimate goal of winning.
SL:
We do take in account each culture – like each civilization has their unique units and unique buildings and the advisors will be like, “hey you need to research horseback riding because you get these companion cavalry.” And they'll know where the good stuff is, and they'll know, through our awesome flavor AI system, like what's sort of what's good for you, and they'll talk about it and be like, “if you research this, you'll get access to that.” So they do have awareness of the unique abilities of each civilization so that's really cool.
ET:
Regardless of how interesting or knowledgeable Civilization V advisors may be, some of you may not want to hear what they have to say all the time – or, as you play the game over time, you may want to hear only parts of their advice. After all, you are the ruler – you should be able to control what your helpers have to say, and when.
SL:
Yes you can control how much they talk, or actually they interrupt you. Initially, for the tutorial, we wanted as much hands-off as possible because one of the strengths of Civ is that it starts very simple and sort of snowballs into a larger game and aspects of the game are introduced. We try to make it at a really elegant pace but still people may have problems with understanding things so we have the advisors come up at certain times. Some people are like, “I already know how to move units, I already found a city, leave me alone.” Beginning players are going to need that information whereas experienced players, you can go in the options panel and say, “I know how to play Civ, leave me alone.” You can say, “tell me only the new stuff” and they'll only talk about how ranged combat works, how 1 unit per tile works, and like sort of new systems to the game works. So the people who know how to play Civ - know about cities and know about workers – aren't going to be nagged to death. But that information is still very useful to new players. It's a hard line to walk and please when you play at home use that options dropdown to set it to your experience level because it helps.
ET:
Advisors clearly explained, Scott and I now divert to a slightly different topic: Happiness. We’ve talked about happiness in Civ V before, and while happiness is not “a person that can help you win Civ V” by any means, there is a reason I’m asking about it. Just stick with me for a minute.
Jon Shafer:
Happiness in Civ V serves a similar role to what it did in previous Civ games where it's kind of a limiter on the player's growth in their cities but it also serves as now a limiter on their expansion as well. We kinda wanted to roll those both into one number I guess. In previous games there were various ways of controlling expansion from corruption in the earlier games to maintenance in Civ IV and we wanted to do something a little bit different where it wasn't so cut and dry how much you could expand before you kind of ground down. So happiness allows you to grow your cities either really big or really wide, but not both at the same time very well. You have to increase your happiness of your empire to allow you to continue to expand or to continue to grow. So keeping that balance is important. You have a few different ways of increasing your happiness from hooking up resources which are on the land so that's kind of a way to gain more happiness by expansion. Or you have certain social policies that you can adopt that will increase your happiness – that's kind of a cultural way of increasing it. Or there are certain buildings that you can construct that will improve it and that's kind of a growth way. If you have really big cities that can build stuff quick you can go that route. So there's different ways of getting more happiness but you kind of have to balance that against everything else that you're doing in the game.
ET:
Jon’s overview of happiness brings me back to “people who will help you in Civ V” – the citizens of your empire. They are people, and they do help you win – but to make sure they help you to the fullest extent possible, you have to keep them happy. More than that, you have to utilize them well so they are effectively achieving your goals. And, you have to know about Specialists.
JS:
Specialists are something that's not really new to Civ V by any stretch. They were in previous Civ games. And we wanted to keep the great people as kind of they were in Civ IV where they have different roles and had different things that they could do. So that's a system that we've kinda carried from Civ IV, we have made some changes to it though. With regards to specialists, instead of just having a general plus or minus you can add them, remove them, whatever, and the number you can add is based on a lot of different factors – the way we've set it up is that buildings now have different numbers of slots for specialists. So, for example, the temple might have 1 or 2 slots for a particular specialist and once you do have a specialist assigned they work very similar to how they worked in Civ IV where they increase culture or science or production or whatever, and they also contribute Great People points to the pool. Unlike Civ IV, there are now individual pools for each type of great person so instead of there being a random roll when the big pool fills up and says, “well you got 50% science, you got 1% culture, and 49% production, here's your Great artist.” The Great Person created is now based on filling up that particular Great Person pool in that city so it gives the player a little bit more control over exactly how he wants to develop in that part of the game. Similar to Civ IV as well, the wonders all contribute so you can kind of mix and match those with the specialists to produce Great People in different ways. Each one has three different abilities I guess you could say. One of them is just some special power that's unique to that type of Great Person. So, for example, the Great Scientist can research a free tech. He's now the only one that can do that in Civ V whereas in Civ IV any of them could research a tech of a different type and now only the Great Scientists can research techs. They can all also build a special tile improvement on the map. So the Great Artist, for example, can build a landmark which gives culture to the city that works that tile. Or the Great General can construct a citadel which will give it a really big defense bonus and also damage enemy units that are stationed next to it so it's kind of an offensive and a defensive benefit. And they can all also start a golden age. It only takes one Great Person to start a golden age now – it's different from Civ IV – but the number of turns that they last goes down with each one you use so you kind of have to plan ahead when you're gonna use different types at different moments instead of just needing to get more and more. There's a little more strategy in terms of how you use them for that. Scott wants to talk about the Great Artist's special ability.
SL:
Well do you want to talk about the other special abilities? Because I think they're really cool.
JS:
Nah we'll let people wait – they'll find out.
SL:
Ok. Great Artist is super evil – I totally love it. Because what he can do is you move him slowly up – well you don't have to move him slowly but I like to – move him slowly up to your borders where you share borders with another Civ and you can – is it just called culture bomb? - like you press the culture bomb button and what you do is you take their plots, and you take them for yourself and they really can't get them back without conquering your city. And that's probably gonna cause a war that'll destroy everybody but it's really fun to do. It's so evil. I mean there's nothing worse than taking somebody's land really I think. What I also like is it's not like, “ok maybe your borders will push somebody back, maybe not.” You're just gonna get the tiles, no questions asked. I mean you won't get cities obviously but it's really mean because if you take someone's uranium or oil that's just hateful and that's why it's fun.
JS:
Scott, poor Scott. Whenever we play multiplayer all he does is produce Great Artists. It worked the first game but it hasn't been so successful since.
SL:
Oh well.
ET:
Before I let Jon and Scott head back into the dev studio, I asked them to impart any final knowledge they had for those listening to the podcast – nuances of the game that could help people get ahead.
JS:
Well in terms of just general economic progression – I touched on it a little bit with the happiness about having good balance – that's kind of important across the game as well. The two factors that kind of are intertwined in a sense are happiness, which we talked about, and gold. We've talked in the past about how gold is more important in Civ V and that plays a big role because you have to manage your expenses in addition to where you're getting your money from and how you want to spend it. So there's a number of things you can do to spend money from purchasing items, buildings, and units to befriending city-states to buying land – whatever. But if you have too many expenses then you're not gonna be able to do those cool things and one of the big tradeoffs in the game is in order to produce more happiness there are a number of buildings that can do that like the coliseum but they tend to be pretty expensive. So if you're gonna play the game a certain way and let's say you run into happiness problems. Well you can construct coliseums but it's gonna cost you money. And now you're out of money, so you have to get money. So it's something that kind of goes back and forth and you have to keep a close eye on how both of those are going so it's a challenge to keep both of them in good shape at the same time. It makes it fun particularly in the mid to late game.
SL:
Also, watch out for the Iroquois. Know when you're playing against the Iroquois and be very careful when you attack them because they can move very fast. Sometimes you go, “ok this guy's ticking me off, I'm gonna declare war on them.” Check before you declare war, make sure it's high (inaudible) out there and make sure you really wanna do that because they can be pretty vengeful. I like them a lot.
JS:
Scott's all about vengeance and meanness. Why can't you just be happy?
SL:
Well no I mean it's really – I love the Iroquois power which is being able to move through jungles and trees in your territory as if it's a road. And it disallows your military units just to fly from one side to the other. And, you know, if you declare war on them, march your little army in, you'll get every single defensive unit right next to you almost immediately. And it's terrifying. But when you're playing Iroquois it's like, “bring it.” It's like, “I got (inaudible) I can run everybody right over.” I love the Iroquois – just be aware of who you're playing against.
ET:
And so ends the twelfth episode of the Civilization V podcast series. As always, we’ve barely scratched the surface of these topics (it seems whenever we get into strategy, not enough can ever be said.) Thanks for listening, and we’ll be back soon with episode thirteen.
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Podcast 13 : The Wonderful World of Wonders
«
Réponse #13 le:
11 Oct 2010 à 23:21 »
Episode 13 :
Les merveilles.
Elizabeth Tobey reçoit Jon Shafer (Lead Designer) qui nous parle de l'importance des merveilles dans le jeu.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the Civilization V Podcast Series. In our thirteenth episode Jon Shafer and I discuss the wonderful world of wonders in Civ V. As usual, we start with the big questions: What are Wonders in this game? And why should anyone care about them?
Jon Shafer:
Well the wonders are meant to represent the great wonders of the world that have been constructed since the beginning of time – or at least the beginning of the game – and they include a lot of things that you would expect like the great pyramids, or the Taj Mahal – those sorts of things. And also some more obscure ones that aren't as well known at least in the West. So we try to get a good range across all of time and all of the world. The wonders themselves – for anybody familiar with Civ, they will know this – but for those who aren't, wonders are kind of like buildings that you can construct in your cities that are real expensive, they take a while to build, but they have really strong powers for you. So instead of just giving you something that helps the city in a small way, it might help the city in a really big way or help the empire or spawn a Great Person or something cool like that. So they're just kind of neat things that players can construct and since there's only one of them in the game, as soon as somebody builds a wonder that one's gone. So only one, ever.
ET:
Wonders have always been in Civ, but the Wonders available have varied not only in structure, but also in their bonuses. For a Civ player hell bent on winning, Wonders are not merely technical and cultural marvels – they are tools to an ultimate goal, and thusly, these bonuses are of the utmost importance. What Wonders the team decided to include, and how they balanced the bonuses, shapes a major part of Civilization V’s gameplay.
JS:
Well like I said we want to get a good range across everything. So a lot of different flavor from different parts of the world. A wonder that's in Civ V that wasn't in Civ IV, for example, is the Himeji Castle which is new. It was in Civ Rev but not in PC Civ games. And we also wanted to think about what sorts of different wonders could provide interesting bonuses. In terms of the bonuses themselves there's a lot of different things that we consider. One thing is we just brainstorm and think about, “ok what would we need to have for a wonder ability?” And something like the Great Person system lends itself all to that. You build this wonder and it gives you a Great General. You build this wonder and it gives you a Great Scientist. Those sorts of things. So you try to draw upon the systems that are in the game and use those to make interesting powers for things that can be built and it can give you something really neat. Additionally we also have wonders that you just kind of have to have. Things like the pyramids, things like the colossus, things like the great lighthouse. We wanted to find abilities for those that made sense. So, for example, the traditional one for the colossus has always kind of been to increase commerce or gold in that city and that's kind of something that we've brought forward from previous versions of the game as well so that's kind of how the colossus works in Civ V. Another good example is the Great Wall. It looks cool on the map so we have it. It's been in previous games, it's a really neat part of history that we want to have in the game. And in terms of the ability, this one is pretty cool. It means that every unit that's an enemy of yours that moves through your territory has to spend double movement to do so. So it's a very powerful defensive wonder. Especially if you have a large empire and something's trying make their way through it, it can make things very challenging. It's always interesting when one of the AI players builds it and you think about it and you're like, “man I was going to attack that guy, ugh this is gonna suck.” We consider a lot of different things from history to “has been in Civ before” to what works well with what we have in the game now.
ET:
Jon pointed out something that is key when dealing with Wonders: Each Wonder has the potential to drastically change the way not only you play, but how your opponents play against you. The Great Wall is a fantastic example of that, but there are, of course, others.
JS:
Well we tried to make sure that the different wonders had different themes to them. And this is especially true in the late part of the game when you're thinking more about victory and you don't want just some random ability that won't help you on the way to winning the game. So especially in the late game we wanted to make sure that all the wonders kind of related to specific victory types. So one example is the Brandenburg Gate which is new. What that does is when you finish it it gives you Great General which can be very useful militarily, obviously. You can take that to the front lines and it will boost the strength of your units which is very helpful if you're trying to win a conquest victory. So that's just one example of how we tried to fit a wonder to a specific path in the game and make sure that it made sense for what players would actually be doing.
ET:
In Civilization V, Wonders are not only of the man made variety. The team created a new, and quite different, variation on Wonders – Natural Wonders. Now, exploring the land and sea has a very real purpose beyond scouting for enemies and a good location for your next city.
JS:
So the original idea of the natural wonders actually came out of something that we were playing around with for victory. We originally had a few different things that you could do to contribute victory points to your total and there are different competitions throughout the game. One of the themes for them was exploration. So we wanted to have players have to go and find something in the world in order to compete with other players and kind of win in this manner. The natural wonders kind of came out of that. They're also inspired somewhat by the relics in Civ Rev where you have these things that are really cool and powerful out in the world and you go and find them and you get some cool bonus out of that. So they're kind of like the Tribal villages or what they are in Civ V now is called ancient ruins – known to the community as “goodie huts.” It's also what they're called in the code. We had to come up with some name that made sense. “Goodie huts” just don't have much flavor to them. So they're kind of upgraded versions of the goodie huts in some way. So you find a natural wonder and what it actually does for you is it boosts your happiness which can be very important. It contributes a certain amount to how much happiness you have in the empire which can keep you expanding or growing or whatever. And that can be particularly important as the game progresses and it becomes a little more difficult to find sources of happiness. So constructing caravels or whatever to go out and explore the world can be pretty useful in that manner. In addition to just finding other players and trading and that sort of thing, finding the natural wonders is another element of the game that's pretty cool that we brought to the exploration side of things.
ET:
As with everything, Jon has some personal favorites (and so do others on the dev team) when it comes to Wonders. Personally, for me, the Hanging Gardens have always been a favorite (mostly because I think they look awesome.)
JS:
One that is pretty neat that we're constantly fighting over in multiplayer is Stonehenge. Stonehenge, what it does is it gives a huge boost in culture. A lot of the early game culture buildings only give you, let's say 2 culture per turn. But Stonehenge will give you 8, which is really quite a bit. So what that will do is the borders of wherever you build it – typically your capital because you're trying to get it early and you don't have other cities – it will expand the borders of the capital very quickly so you get lots of resources and different things. It will also speed up your social policies quite a bit in the early part of the game. So it's a neat one that is worth grabbing especially if there are other humans in the game because everybody wants it so grabbing it first is pretty fun. Other than that I talked about the Great Wall earlier of course which is pretty neat. I like to be on the offense, so it's not as useful to me, so I like to make sure I have it so no one else can. That makes things a little bit easier for me.
ET:
And so ends podcast number thirteen for Civilization V. Hopefully, you have more insight not only into the new Wonders of the game, but also why the team chose them, and how you’ll be able to effectively exploit them to conquer the world. Thanks for joining us, and we’ll be back soon with Episode 14.
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Podcast 14 : Victories Galore
«
Réponse #14 le:
11 Oct 2010 à 23:29 »
Episode 14 :
Les victoires.
Elizabeth Tobey reçoit Jon Shafer (Lead Designer) qui nous parle des conditions de victoires du jeu.
Elizabeth Tobey:
Welcome to the fourteenth episode of the Civilization V Podcast Series. My name’s Elizabeth Tobey, and today, I’m back with Jon Shafer to discuss a very important aspect of Civilization: How you win. There are several different roads to victory in the game, and Jon has insight into not only what each are, but how best you should achieve them.
Jon Shafer:
So the victories in Civ V are – at least in terms of what they are – is similar to the previous games. So we have a diplomatic victory, we have a science victory, we have a culture victory and we have a military victory. Those are the four. You can also win if you have the high score when the game runs out of turns but that's kind of sad and not very impressive. The four victories in Civ V, like I said, are similar to what was in IV but the mechanics for them are all different. I'll go ahead and start with the military victory. Players familiar with Civ Rev will recognize this. To win a military victory you have to be the last player standing that has their capital – their original capital. So if you're able to take out everybody's capital then you can win that way. You don't have to wipe everybody out completely. So this is officially the domination victory in Civ V. It can be pretty interesting because you obviously can just have a surgical strike that will take out somebody's capital and you can try to hold on to that against the rest of the empire or you can try and take them out slowly and just wipe them out completely and take their capital and it'll be much easier to hold it that way but it will take longer and you'll have to spend more resources to do it, etc. One of the reason why we took this route with conquest or domination victory was fighting wars in Civ V does take longer than it has in previous games. You don't have the big stacks and just move them around 1 tile at a time until your big stack wipes out every unit they have and then you've killed them off. It does take a little bit more time and more planning to execute a war. We didn't want to have to force players to wipe out every single city, every single unit on the map to win for a military victory. So that kind of plays into what we thought was interesting in Civ Rev and also kind of responding to what we have in Civ V and embracing that. The cultural victory is based on the policies tree. Instead of just needing to accumulate a certain number of culture - a certain amount of culture in cities – you now have to complete 5 out of the 10 branches in the social policies tree. So finishing even that much is obviously fairly impressive. You're not gonna finish the whole tree of course. Once you've finished five branches you can construct the Utopia Project which is kind of like a wonder and it takes a while to build and once you've finished it you win the game. The thing we wanted to do is kind of make all the victories have different phases to them so you can recognize when somebody is getting close to winning so it shouldn't sneak up on you. That's kind of how the Utopia Project works for the culture victory. You will find out once somebody's finished all five of their branches and then they start the Utopia Project and you have a certain period of time where you can do something about that. Generally, beat them up. Third victory is science victory or space victory. The way this one works is more similar to the victory type in Civ IV where you need to build different spaceship parts. The difference with it in Civ V is that the parts themselves are constructed as units which then have to be sent to the capital and added to the capital to be combined with the spaceship. So instead of just finishing a spaceship part anywhere and it kind of just goes off into the ether, you actually have to build this unit and send him across the map and protect him and make sure it arrives safely. So that adds a new dimension to the space victory. It's more of a spacial challenge as opposed to, you know, “do I get to the end of the tech tree – do I have enough production to build these things quicker than everybody else? Ok.” There's a little bit more to it than that. Finally the fourth victory we'll talk about is the diplomatic victory. This one is probably the most different in that instead of just having votes based on population of different players in the game every civilization has exactly one vote. Not just that, but the city-states all have 1 vote. So you could be the largest Civ in the entire game and you could dwarf everyone else but in terms of the diplomatic victory you cannot win by yourself. It's just not possible. Now what makes it really interesting is that players that have been killed can be liberated and if you liberate a player it will then vote for you in the United Nations election to win the game. You can actually win a diplomatic victory by kind of being a white knight where you go around and save everybody. You re-capture these conquered city-states and liberate them and then they'll vote for you. So you can kind of actually almost role play that and have a really interesting game that way. Like in Civ IV you have to build the United Nations and there's a vote that's held every so often and whoever has the U.N. gets an extra vote so there's kind of an incentive to actually be the one to build it instead of just waiting for somebody else to do it. That one is pretty interesting. It's very dependent on, in particular, becoming friends with a lot of city-states because in addition to liberation, if you're the ally of a city-state it will vote for you. So there's kind of a lot of machination that goes on in trying to steal allies away from other players and a lot of interesting things involved there.
ET:
As one would imagine, each of these victory conditions will result in a fairly different play style. Going for a cultural victory will require a distinctly different strategy than a domination victory. Particularly on the upper difficulties, this is crucial to a winning strategy. Jon explains how victory conditions can change play style and gives a couple tips on how to get ahead.
JS:
The diplomatic victory, for example, is very reliant upon city-states like I said. If all the city-states are wiped out of the game, I forget the exact math, but it could be theoretically impossible to win a diplomatic victory just because the other players are not going to vote for you. It's not like Civ IV where you could threaten them or whatever. They kind of play it more as a game where they say, “I'm not gonna vote for you because voting for you will win the game for you. I have no interest in that, I want to win.” So you kind of have to go out on your own and make sure that you can get there and win by allying or liberating enough city-states. That's something that will also hold together in multiplayer as well. The diplomatic victory previous games is pretty much useless with regards to multiplayer because nobody's going to vote for anybody else but themselves and it just kind of didn't exist. So that makes it more interesting in multiplayer. And also the cultural victory, similar to previous games, you have to play a certain way to win that. If you're not building things culturally, if you're not getting Great Artists – that sort of thing – it's going to be impossible to win that way. A big thing with the cultural victory is that you generally can't be a huge “expansionistic” empire because the cost of your social policies is based on the size of your empire. The bigger the empire, the harder it is to change. I guess Russia would be a good example of that. It took much longer for them to kind of get out of feudalistic type of running their country. If you build lots and lots and lots of cities, if you conquer lots and lots of cities, you're not going to be able to win culture either. So you kind of have to plan ahead and make sure that each decision you make with regards to expansion is important. Military is obvious. You know, you go beat people up. The space race is kind of, as it has been in previous games, the default “you played well, you have a strong economy, you managed to fight off your opponents and made it down to the wire” victory. Obviously it rewards strong science. If you're the first to get to the techs that let you build the parts then it'll make it easier to win but it's not as focused a victory type as the other ones are.
ET:
It seems logical to think, if every victory takes a different play style, that things could get pretty dicey during the end game if you are unlucky enough to have to change which victory you are going for. I wanted to know if it was even possible (especially for a competitive player on an upper difficulty) to change victory goals mid-game and still conquer the world.
JS:
Depends on the type of victory. Military – it could be more challenging if you aren't fighting early but it's definitely possible again because you only need the capitals. If you're opportunistic you can sneak in and win that way. Culture would be much more difficult. Like I said, if you do have a huge empire then you probably locked yourself out. If you're more of a medium or smaller sized empire it's theoretically possible but you kind of have to make sure that you're focusing on it from at least the mid-game. If it's, you know, 1800A.D. and you haven't started and built any temples you're probably in trouble. In the diplo – there's a fair amount of flexibility in the diplo one because, again, you can decide to liberate other players. The city-states, of course, you can befriend later in the game and take them away from other allied players. And also with the diplo, if you do liberate an AI player they will vote for you. So if somebody was killed off that way you can go and rescue them in that manner. So there's some of them that have more flexibility than others. We generally kind of wanted to allow for some movement but certain ones are more open to that than others.
ET:
I’ve been talking a lot about victories, and the difficulty of achieving your goals, on higher levels – but, of course, Civ has many different difficulties, and the AI adapts depending on what level you are on. Regardless of difficulty, however, the AI always tries to stop you from winning – and, of course, win themselves.
JS:
The AI will kind of try to guess as to what victory you're going for. It could be wrong. It probably will be wrong sometimes. Maybe once or twice ever. It tries to keep tabs on what you're doing and kind of which way you're trending. So if you do adopt a ton of social policies early they're going to probably say, “hmm, this guy's going for culture! What are we gonna do about that?” One thing that we wanted to make sure we didn't do is if an AI sees that you are getting closer to winning or that you are really strong, they're not all just going to gang up on you and start fighting you and try to kill you just because you're getting close to winning because that's something that we didn't feel was really a lot of fun. Some of the earlier Civ games have had that feature and it's not one of the more popular ones so we wanted to make sure we didn't have that. That being said, if you're going for a militaristic game and you're attacking a lot of players, you're conquering city-states – that is kind of where we take that away and then we say, “alright this guy is a threat not only to winning the game but killing me. I might want to do something about this.” And that's particularly true with the city-states where as you start attacking more and more of them they'll start to band together and fight you and if you take a city-state somebody's allied or friends with then they're much more likely to attack you and be angry with you, so you kind of have to manage how that goes. They do try to pay attention, they do adapt, but we try to be mindful making sure the game is fun and not exactly cutthroat. This is exactly like multiplayer. So we're trying to strike a balance there.
ET:
Finally, I get into one last part of how one wins Civilization V – what Civilization you play as is key to a successful victory. Each Civ comes with distinct strengths and weaknesses that can be exploited to your benefit, and Jon highlights some of those very benefits.
JS:
Yes! The Siamese and the Greeks are both kind of geared towards city-states in terms of their special bonus and certain other ones get bonuses in different areas. So, for example, France gets a culture bonus which is definitely going to be helpful in going for a culture victory. Other ones, depending on their units or their ability, are more militaristic. Each of them have unique strengths but we wanted to make sure that they all kind of had some leaning but not too strongly. So you can still win a culture victory if you don't play France but France will have a bit of a head start on that.
ET:
To round out our Victory podcast, I ask Jon a personal question – what is his method of choice when aiming to win a game of Civilization V? How about his favorite strategy? What does the guru of Civilization V do when he wants to conquer the world?
JS:
Honestly I find them all pretty interesting. The diplo one in particular is pretty fun just because it is quite a bit different from anything that's been in an earlier Civ game. You can draw parallels to each of the other ones to earlier games but the diplo one is pretty unique mainly because it is so dependent on the city-states and the city-states are a brand new feature. That one is pretty cool. It can change quite a bit in the late game as you're getting closer to the end and how you spend your money and who's spending money where can really shake things up. So that one's probably the one I think is most interesting just because it's the newest and the freshest. I do think they're all fun though. Recently, I won a science victory a couple days ago. I'm going for military now. I've won a few culture games recently, and diplo I've liked so it was one of the first ones I won. They're all interesting. Try my hand at conquest this time.
ET:
Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Civilization V podcast series. I hope we have given you more than enough food for thought as you strategize your first victories when Civ comes out on September 21st – only days away. Stay tuned for our fifteenth and final episode, where we look back on Civilization V’s development.
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